As a feminist in training, this is an interesting thread. [My feminist side has only manifested itself in wanting to hit a few advertising executives and shrieking at men arguing against abortion. Natch.] -Says no more for now, watching the thread. This could turn out to be verrrrrrrrry interesting.-

Indeed it could. It would be intresting to hear your views as well, dear...

Sproutmeister:
It seems we agree on what *should* be, and only disagree on what the "feminist" movement has taught. I'm happy to agree to disagree on that and keep the rest.

On the feminist movement issue, I think your view sounds more modern, and I think the path the movement took through the 60s, 70s, and 80s may be more akin to what I was describing. I am jaded, I admit. My feminism studies were taught by a pretty draconian professor.

Yepp this is my thougts as well not counting the shoes that is! [img]tongue.gif[/img] Had you said clothes I would haev agreed to all. :D </font>[/QUOTE]This *would* hold water were it not for the fact that many different genotypes exist. Among them, i have to note, an XX male variety. I mentioned this in another thread a few weeks back. Do a search for chromosomal disorders (using the terms XXXXX, XYY, XXY), and you will turn up all sorts, including a few types that contradict you.

However, in the vast majority of cases, I would agree with you. I'm just being difficult again [img]smile.gif[/img]

We happened to discuss this very issue in my Educational Psychology class last evening.

The one important fact that I took away was that Masculinity is often defined (by psychologists) as being related to aggressiveness.

The discussion went on to discuss why aggression can be good. For example, competition forces people to work together within established boundaries.

From a parent's perspective my wife tends to worry that our son is being too aggressive. He will play Dungeon Siege with me and then for the next three days he runs around the house pretending to bash stuff with his plastic sword.

After last night's discussion, I am relieved to discover that children who engage in aggressive play (wrestling, swashbuckling, playing war) are better at anger management and cooperation as adults.

I would just like to point out a relationship between this development and an issue which has somehow slipped away from the attention of the Ironworkers, despite it's most serious nature and the priority it should enjoy. I speak, of course, of the Trouser Tyranny.

[img]graemlins/givingspeech.gif[/img]
Trousers are a relatively recent development. In earlier times, men were accustomed to wearing unbifurcated clothing - such as robes, togas, tunics, sarongs, and various kilt-like or skirt-like garments. These unbifurcated garments were not divided between the legs, and therefore...

Hmm, well, for those who do not yet know and/or this reminder is insufficient, someone you know may well start a new thread some day...
Until then, remember to say NO to the Trouser Tyranny.
Vive la resistance!

Is this another plug for the Free Land Of Kilts? ;)

No... the free land of kilts and blaiuts is another plug for the struggle against Trouser Tyranny [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Ah, to such a terrible state it has all come when not even our more level-headed members recognise the most dire nature of this struggle. Perhaps the time has indeed come to act, if not for victory than for the attention it shall bring the subject.

I happen to agree with you, and look forward to a time when we ALL can enjoy a cooling breeze on a hot day. Why the Scotts EVER traded in their kilts for trousers is beyond me.

Ah yes but here's an interestin fact. No more than ONE X chromosome remains active in each cell. ;) The other one is shut down. Therefore Attlus' and my reasoning isn't all that bad after all you know. I'm just being difficult here. ;)