Funny how having nuclear capability puts you in that class of countries that can't be messed with and has to be dealt with "peacefully." I think the government has known N. Korea had (or was close to having) the capability for some time - which is why it was important to address in 1994.

It's a two-stage process. First, most nations *suspect* you ("you" meaning "a nation") have the bomb - your international snafus get swept under the rug for a bit. The other nations make statements about your promises not to havethe bomb, hoping you'll keep quiet if you do. Then, and usually for sake of status, you slowly leak the info. Then, you announce it. Bingo, keys to executive wash room - you are now *in* that class of nations that has to be considered on the big issues because you have the penultimate power. That's how I see it anyway. Seems to fit the India and Pakistan mold.

Doing your tests and getting away with them is the super-coolest. France kept doing tests in the South Pacific until other nations took it to the ICJ on it. France's response - yank it's voluntary submission to ICJ jurisdiction. (Note - if you do not maintain the voluntary submission to ICJ jurisdiction, you can only get sued at the ICJ if you *consent* to the individual suit that is filed - each and every case requires your agreement to be sued.)

Have I gone [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] ?

There is no oil and gas in north Korea

You are not naive enough to think that the war in Iraq is about removing a dictator or neutralize weapons of mass destruction are you ?</font>[/QUOTE]BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!

As I've said before...Aren't you people tired of beating this drum yet? This is getting to be a VERY tired tune.

The current situation regarding Iraq IS NOT ABOUT OIL!! It's COMPLETELY about a genocidal madman with Chemical, Biological, and (very soon) Nuclear weapons. He needs to be stripped of power(and the ability to breathe) ASAP before he starts giving said weapons to his Al Queda buddies and turns them loose on Isreal, Europe or the USA.

[img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img] OFF

I don't think it is smart for me to enter this kind of discussion with Z himself. But I really do not believe the US gave a damn about Kuwaiti people welfare when it went into the first gulf war, it was only a lame excuse, and sure you do not get any oil from Saddam's regime but you would if the US replaced him with a lapdog leader, and that's what all this is about.

As of North Korea the second reason why you don't go to war with them is China! Not only communist friends of North Korea but also a billion potential McDonalds burger eaters you do not want to anger.

I really do not believe that the USA gives a damn about any thing else that the USA's interests.

This is going to get me banned, that's why I avoided political discussions, 'til now.</font>[/QUOTE]Hey...Ziroc likes to debate just like the rest of us. I've seen him do it before. He only pulls out the Stomp-O-Matic for Trolls and Flamers.

As for oil...Russia has a VAST quantity of oil that they are perfectly willing to sell us. We dont *need* oil from Kuwait, Iraq, or any other Middle East nation.

Erm...and, last time I checked...McDonalds didn't have a representative in the White House.

Well, call me a Hard-Core Right-Wing Conservative...oh wait...I *AM* a Hard-Core Right-Wing Conservative,...anyway...I happen to believe that the US *shouldn't* give a damn about anyone else's opinion when it comes to her own safety and well being. In microcosm, I dont ask my neighbor whether or not I should shoot someone breaking into my home and threatening me with a large handgun. I just shoot the SOB. :D

And lastly...Hey...we're all entitled to our opinions. Dont be afraid to express them. Just continue doing it politely and you wont be in any danger of being banned. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Yeah, but if you suspect someone will break into your home and preemptively walk over to their house and pop a few caps in them, you get to go to jail. Not so subtle a distinction, and one that needs pointing out, no? :D

Yeah, but if you suspect someone will break into your home and preemptively walk over to their house and pop a few caps in them, you get to go to jail. Not so subtle a distinction, and one that needs pointing out, no? :D [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]OK...I'll grant you that one.

However...what if said someone takes a few pot shots over your house. What are you supposed to do then? If you are in reasonable fear of your life, are you allowed to pre-emptivly defend yourself. Makes for an interesting moral question about reasonable self-defense...

*Looks at clock*

DRAT!! I dont have time to stay and debate this one. Sorry! I'm about to head home, and dont have net access on the weekends. :( It this thread is still around Monday, I'll be back. Otherwise, I suppose we will disagree over something else. :D See ya around TL.

Laters all!

The problem is that SH haven't attack the US - nor has any links to Al'Queda been proven.

Back to North-Korea. Their problemis that their society is collapsing due to something like 5 years of failing crops. There is nationwide hunger - not the best background for maintaining a credible military threat. I think that the nukes will simply be used as bargening chips - i.e. we destroy them and in return you give us ......... North-Korea is in desperate need of forign capital - they have even started creating their first 'free-economy-zone' - like you find in China.