:takesabow: Thank you, milady. "Praise from Sir Hubert is praise, indeed." The public health figures show that there are, in Texas, about twice as many attempted suicides reported as succcessful ones. As a physician, I know that many suicide attempts are insincere, a cry for help, as somebody says. They can also be an attention-getting device. Serious suicide attempts are usually apparent, as much more damage is done. Pill takers are usually the most insincere ones, and shooters the least. One of my ex-patients slashed her wrists, driving her kids and husband wild.

[ 08-25-2002, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Attalus ]

I've seen a few suicides in my surroundings, and they were all unexpected. They were healthy guys, no problems that we (their friends) knew of. And i can only come to one conclusion: it was pretty selfish of those guys, left their families and friends without a clue of what was bothering them. I still hate them for it.

Yes, Johnny, the rage of the survivors is often intense, and rechanneled into self-destructive behaviors, like sexual promiscuity and alcohol and drug abuse.

Actually I think wrist slitting is the way which is most a cry for help, because most people make a lateral cut across the width of the wrist, and tha shows that they are either doing it for attention, as it scars, and know someone will stop them, and if not that then they are serious about it but masochists, as it takes a lot longer than you think doing it that way.
If someone was seriously trying to kill themselves with vein cutting, then it's quicker to slice yup and down the forearm.

I have a suicide in my close family as well, but I don't hate him for it.
You never know what happened to them - people have secrets even to those they are closest to. In my case, there was plenty incentive, though I still think he should have chosen a different way out. It may appear selfish, but I think that in many cases, something just snaps inside their brain - the cannot empathise or connect to the world anymore... it's sheer despair to which there's only one way out. We don't know enough of the human psyche to be able to really tell what's going on inside a person's head.
Of course I felt anger as well, but a lot of the people who REALLY want to die are just too far gone to be able to make clear judgements, and in that respect I don't feel I can blame them for their act.

Not completely true, though part of it is.
Self mutilation has, in most cases, nothing to do with attempted suicide and should be seen apart from it. It's often a way to transform mental pain into physical pain, has a calming effect on the patient lots of times. It's not always a call for attention, more of a safety valve. Lots of people are actually ashamed of their scars, and of doing it, so it's really something different than suicide attempts. But I agree that if someone tries to commit suicide by slashing their wrists, they're either very uninformed or not serious about it, as it's very difficult to succeed at killing yourself that way.

just for the record wsith self-mutilation there is a woman at work who does indeed break her arm or whatever on occasion. There is indeed a strong suspicion it's self inflicted as it's happened several times since her divorce

Oh no, you are right about self-harm, I know about that too, but there are cases of people wrist slitting, hoping for attention, as in thinking some one will stop them and take them to hospital or something.
For example, there was this one case (although not wrist slitting) of this rather insecure woman who was desperate for her husbands full attention, and every so often tried to kill herself knowing she would be stopped, but the last time she arrnaged with a friend to do the exhaust pipe trick, but something went wrong and she ended up actually dying.

Actually, Talthyr, if you slice deeply enough, the radial and ulnar artery are right there at the wrist, and it is the easiest place to get them. We often use that place to put arterial cathers in. You are right, they are small arteries, but they will do the job. as my ex-patient proved. She had fired me before that, thank God, mostly for refusing to give her narcotics. ;)

My opinion is that people who are really serious about commiting suicide will, no matter what you do. Anything else, anything that can be talked out of is merely a "cry for help" or attention seeking. As I say, that's just my opinion...