<font color='white'>Creating? I dont think Rumsfeld is creating new enemys, not at all. You cant create something that already exsist.

Ok sure, we are not going to bomb France anytime soon, but in all honesty, I am not real sure France and Germany are really Allies anymore? I could be wrong, and I am probably being a bit...eh, cynical. </font>

<font color='white'>Creating? I dont think Rumsfeld is creating new enemys, not at all. You cant create something that already exsist.

Ok sure, we are not going to bomb France anytime soon, but in all honesty, I am not real sure France and Germany are really Allies anymore? I could be wrong, and I am probably being a bit...eh, cynical. </font></font>[/QUOTE]Well, just because they don't agree with American views on certain things, doesn't mean they are the enemy. France was always.... a little difficult. They were difficult when the USA didn't even exist, and they will always be like that, that's also part of the charm of the country i suppose. The German attitude is kinda new to me though. it's like they feel they speak for the entire European union, which is absolutely not the case.

<font color='white'>Yes I know that just because they arent agreeing they are the enemie. But, well, take Israel for example, they arent saying 'yes' to the war, they have stated that the only way they will get involved is if Iraq attacks them first. So, they arent going with us to 'invade' Iraq, but they are still an ally.

France and Germany is diffrent. </font>

*looks at the topic title, looks at the first post....looks back at the thread* Ok, I KNOW this wasn't a 'what country is being bashed now and who is pro or con the bashing of said country' thread. ;)

It's back on topic, so let's try to stay in the track, ok? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Well well well. [img]graemlins/1pissed.gif[/img]

To all you U.S. people who have posted here :

For those in here who are genuinely interested by the logic behind the French position, I suggest you have a look there.

Though I am not at all of the same political side as the French current government, I support it fully on that matter. Along with a huge majority of French people.

Now about what I just read in the present thread. [img]graemlins/1pissed.gif[/img] I had always believed, until now, that cultural differences could and should be discussed with respect between me, a French, and you U.S. people. How stupid ! [img]graemlins/1pissed.gif[/img]

May I remind you that the purpose of the U.N. is to decide of matters involving world peace TOGETHER. Now I understand why you say the U.N. is useless ! The idea is : you want to decide of everything all alone, everything is just fine as long as everyone submits to what the Mighty Americans want, and as soon as someone dares disagree with you, he is just just some annoying bug ... and you dare complain when some people tell you you are a bunch of annoying rhinos ? [img]graemlins/1pissed.gif[/img]

I thought there was a Rule about "No targeting of another user by harassing or giving unwarranted attention to or attacking ones race, gender, ethnicity or country." Is it suspended on this forum ? :angry:

Bah. I thought we could talk together in a civilized manner. I now realized we can't. Have fun. [img]graemlins/1pissed.gif[/img] !

Three or four citizens does not an entire nation make Moiraine. You're angry, that's fine, but don't become what you despise here. There are alot of Americans who don't conform to the line of thinking that you've expressed your disgust for.

I am angry at the paternalism running through this thread. During the two years I have been on IW, I have NEVER bashed the U.S. Because I respected the U.S. people there. Now, seeing that all you get is a light pat on the head when bashing other people's countries in the back, why could't I play too ? Apparently it is funny. :(

They are not 'bashing' you nor your country. They are questioning its motives and so far (at least on this thread), I havn't seen any real insults being cast upon France (or yourself).

Memnoch (in another thread) referred to my viewpoints as "unpopular and ...probably ill-informed and naive" - even that is not a personal attack (by my standards) - which is a lot stronger than anything that has been said on this thread.

It's very hard to explain the dividing line between 'attack' and 'criticism' - the best I can do is say that an attack is definitive (for example "You are a racist" or "You are stupid") wheras criticism is greyer (ie "you're stance plays into the hands of racists" or "you are misguided/misinformed")...

In any event - if you have a problem with one (or more) posters - send an email to the moderators. If there is something to be done, they'll sort it out. If not, they will explain why.

Cheer up - I think France is making the right decision for the right reasons, so you have at least one other person 'in your camp'. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I was going to PM Moiraine on this, but I think everyone here should read this:

Moiraine,
I am very sorry if I appeared flippant in regards to the bashing of France in the "France warns about blocking resolution on Iraq war" thread.
My original comment was meant as sarcasm in saying that many Amercans can get really bent out of shape when the USA is bashed but do not seem to have any trouble bashing France (or others). In a cowardly way, I backpedaled and turned it around to make it seem that I thought it was refreshing to see some other country bashed. I went on to say that it is ok for any nation to be bashed if they are a player. I do not believe that at all, really. Nation bashing is not a good thing at all, it creates division between all people.
I do believe that if a person does not like country bashing, they should not bash other nations.
I do criticize the USA at times...I admit, but I feel I have the right to, afterall I do live here. I believe criticism makes a nation better.
Again I apologize for my comments.

Mark

[ 01-24-2003, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: skywalker ]

Moiraine, I hope you understand my opposition to the French position has nothing to do with you or your agreement with that position. [img]smile.gif[/img]

As to my comments about the initial French yes vote to "insist" on the return of inspectors coming after being assured the oil contracts would be honored, while I believe it's true, I meant no disrespect to you or any other French person. Such is the way of inter-governmental politics.

I've meant no disrespect. :D

[ 01-24-2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]