<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:


It is precisely because the US is the world's only superpower that its methods and motives come under such scrutiny. It has tremendous power in the world, both for good and for ill. <hr></blockquote>


The only superpower? Your finger certainly is off the pulse. The European Union is the other superpower and has been for a while. The singular superpower opinion sounds like regurgitated media hypothesis rather than individualised analysis.

I know an awful lot of anti-inaction people, both on this forum and off, and I think I can safely say that none of them, including myself, are 'envious' of Britain. What's to be envious of? We are mostly Westernised, and have great standards of living in our own countries, thanks. I myself am not a freelance business and technical writer, amongst other things. A great soul enriching job (when I can be bothered to do it... - certainly I prefer to keep out of the corporates, and run up my debts whilst spending my days creating, and posting, of course... :) )

I personally am not 'envious' of the fact that Britain is part of the world's second superpower. Why on earth would I be? I just don't get it.

It is precisely because Europe is the world's other superpower that its methods and motives come under such scrutiny. It has tremendous power in the world, both for good and for ill. It is right that an entity that affects so many people's lives around the world be subject to comment, criticism, suggestion and praise, where each of those things is appropriate. This process really has nothing to do with envy, at least as far as most of the peple posting here are concerned.

It might be different when you're talking about people who have flat rock bottom nothing, and see that Europe has so much. What's happening here is questioning about WHY Europe has so much, when much of the world's people have very little. Some of the answers are to do with exploitation of the world's people by European institutions, which are backed by European governments, and who are in collusion with unsavoury regimes all over the world.

Given the circumstances, envy and anger might seem to be reasonable emotions for the world's poor to feel? (Not blaming Europeans for the world's ills here, just saying yes, EU companies are partially to blame for some of them. As are many Japanese countries. However, most of the big multinationals are from the West and Japan) I'm including the whole oil thing here, about which there has already been much discussion, i.e. Europe's relationships with repressive regimes to safeguard oil interests. You may see that as fine - those whose human rights are being abused do not, and Europe is apportioned a share of the blame.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yorick:


Then you agree the rape victim is at fault, <hr></blockquote>

Yorick man... I dont know who si this "you" you are talking about here, (I know it is not you, but I cannot control myself now, no time to look for whoever said it)

who the ■■■■ said this??? Barry the Sprout??? did you say that??? please tell me no, I am already VERY ■■■■■■■ controled now!

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yorick:
[QB]
I'm sorry but you do not know what you are talking about.
QB]<hr></blockquote>

I'm sorry Yorick. I will stomach many critiscms but ignorance on this issue is not one I want. I am not infallible but I am not stupid. I think the only way you could have taken the post the way you did was for you not to have read past the line you quoted.

I agree nothing forces the hand - but you can't have it both ways either mate. If the policy hadn't been conducted in the way it was then there would have been no incentive for this. I actually also agree that guilt is universal, but then why are we only bombing one side?

I think all of this is getting to me a bit much so I am going to take a leaf out of your book and take an IW break for a while. It seems that whatever I write I get mocked or insulted. Either indiviudally or as an anti war group.

I am sorry if the nature of this post changes half way through but I have been walking around the edges of what I really think for quite some time. If I am going then I am not doing so without saying this:

I do not support Bin Ladens actions but I support his effort in changing western foreign policy.

Can I just leave with a line from Thom Yorke:

"When I am king you will be first against the wall,"

By which I mean that I may be losing now but one day I will show the lot of you why you are wrong. It does not mean I am going to come and find you - it is just an expression of frustration. That sentiment keeps me going sometimes it really does.

Truly sorry if this offends anyone, but it wouldn't be an expression of true feeling if I didn;t say what I felt would it.

Bye guys.
Mike

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 250:


Yorick man... I dont know who si this "you" you are talking about here, (I know it is not you, but I cannot control myself now, no time to look for whoever said it)

who the ■■■■ said this??? Barry the Sprout??? did you say that??? please tell me no, I am already VERY ■■■■■■■ controled now!<hr></blockquote>

The same person that says America is to blame for Mohammad Atta and his maniacs destroying the Twin Towers.

The same person that says the victim of a crime is to blame for that crime.

alright, I dont care about if he meant to say "american is to be blamed" (not at **this** moment)

he better tell me he doesnt think so

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:


I'm sorry Yorick. I will stomach many critiscms but ignorance on this issue is not one I want. I am not infallible but I am not stupid......I do not support Bin Ladens actions but I support his effort in changing western foreign policy.

<hr></blockquote>

"I do not support Bin Ladens actions but support his effort in changing western foreign policy."

You don't see the contradiction of your statement? Effort is action. Attempting to change someone is an action. His violence is not seperate from his ideals. His Wahabism is at once his ideal put forth in action. Islam itself is works based! One defines themself as an Islam by their actions.

YOU are trying to change western foreign policy. Bin Laden is pursuing Wahabist ideology. There is a difference. Failure to understand this IS ignorance Barry.

You decided to post an already voiced opinion on a very sensitive matter about something you obviously know little about. If you are hurt and upset by my reaction, then according to your logic, you only have yourself to blame, for you should have expected it, something like this has been on the cards for a while. Even after it has happened your posting style is not changing.

Which is it? Why do you neither see your contradictory opinions on Bin Laden, or on matters of cause and effect?

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yorick:


The only superpower? Your finger certainly is off the pulse. The European Union is the other superpower and has been for a while. The singular superpower opinion sounds like regurgitated media hypothesis rather than individualised analysis.<hr></blockquote>

Before I comment on this Yorick, may I say how heartwarming it is to witness your new cuddly debate style. So this is the new less sarcastic, less confrontational model, eh? Well, well. Plus ça change, plus ça la meme chose, eh?

Re your superpower observation, my answer is that the EU is moving towards superpower status, but has not attained it yet. Give it another ten years or so.... Leading European politians, including that Blair chappie you like so much, also hold this view. (Let us not forget, however, that there is a large section of the British who want nothing to do with Europe, and still bitterly regret that we ever joined the EEC in the first place. Hence the resistance to the Euro. It's a moot point whether the promised referendum will actually see a vote for the Euro or not.)

I'm a bit puzzled re your statement on 'regurgitated media hyphothesis'. Hmm. I'm actually not much of a media babe. No TV, listen to the radio news once or twice a week, and freewheel flip through the newspapers most days. If there's anything that looks interesting, I'll buy a copy. Of course a lot of my statements are informed by media. Aren't yours? Aren't everyone's?

They are also informed by books, internet, other people, specialist magazines in the library and so on.... All material is subject to my own individual anaysis, which compares and contrasts new material with what has gone before, and accepts, rejects or gives it a 'maybe'. ... New information comes into this relatively organised hodgepodge every second of the day, again from different sources, and again, is accepted or rejected, if accepted, again, it is analysed and catalogued accordingly.

I use this existing, constantly being added to, everchanging data bank of material as a basis upon which to evaluate new experiences and material, as does everyone. Bits and pieces of it come from the media, as that is a source of (not always valid and always biased) information in this society. That's how human beings learn, develop, and become informed about their world. It's quite normal, I assure you, on this planet that I inhabit.

Not quite sure which one you're living on....

Ah yes, that'll be planet let's drive everyone anyway who doesn't agree with Yorick by insulting them, being sarcastic, and taking some mythical moral high ground.

I happen to think Barry had a point. But he had the temerity to disagree with YOU, didn't he Yorick, so all actions justified, end of story.

(And I got called on being sarcastic. Jesus. )

What the?!?!!?

I'm gone for just over an hour and I come back to this mess. Come on guys, grow up! Barry, I hope that you won't leave. 250, calm down and Yorick, take a deep breath! No, you might not agree with what the others have to say but it's no reasons to start attacking each other left and right.

CLEAN UP YOUR ACT, all of you!

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ryanamur:
What the?!?!!?

I'm gone for just over an hour and I come back to this mess. Come on guys, grow up! Barry, I hope that you won't leave. 250, calm down and Yorick, take a deep breath! No, you might not agree with what the others have to say but it's no reasons to start attacking each other left and right.

CLEAN UP YOUR ACT, all of you!<hr></blockquote>

As you haven't mentioned me, Ryanamur, I guess we posted at the same time!