I don't think anyone is questioning whether "it" is alive, they are questioning what "it" is. To some people like myself it is subjective, to others it is absolute. I believe nothing can be absolute all the time when life is the subject. I have seen way too many horror stories and success stories to believe there is only one way and that way is the same all over the world. I live a charmed life and don't know what people not as fortunate as myself, feel. They can tell me but I still can't feel their joy or pain, therefor the decision I make is based on my reality. I'm sure there are some things in Australia I can't get the full feeling for or in any other country. I just belive everything in life is good. I may not be wise enough to see it but that doesn't mean it's not good. So whetever decisions people are making it is comming from a good source. Thats just me though.

No amount of emotionalistic hyperbole and preaching will sway or erode my support for this kind of scientific endeavor. A lump of cells smaller than a pinhead- formed in a laboratory for the purposes of treating illness -can in no reasonable way be considered a human individual in my opinion.

Why exactly?

For what it's worth, the morals I've designed for myself primarily center around whether or not a person intentionally inflicts suffering onto other creatures. Since I don't believe in immortal 'souls' or 'the sanctity of life', then life for life's sake isn't that important to me. The embryo will not 'suffer' per se, as it has no brain or nervous system to register pain with, so I'm not against abortion of an embryo. However, as Yorick has mentioned, abortion can inflict suffering on the mother (it doesn't always though, I've known aborters who have been perfectly comfortable with their decision). So for me it all boils down to whether or not the parents are ok with it as to whether abortion should or shouldn't be done. If these embryos are grown in a culture, in an 'artificial' environment, outside of a womb, then I have no problem with aborting them whatsoever.

And yet it's all relative. You are nothing but a clump of cells, that in the scheme of the universe is little bigger than a pinhead.

Size and relative relevence is no excuse for murdering human life.

[ 08-14-2004, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

It's only murder to some.

It's only murder to some. </font>[/QUOTE]Some regard it as murder, so it is by definition murder. Seeing as we're dealing with the deification of subjective realities in this thread. In my subjective truth (which perceives absolute truth) I regard abortion as murder of human life, so I have every right to call it such and declare everyone who disagrees wrong. :D

In any case, the life desists. Size and relative relevence are no excuse for terminating human life. Life that will be human, life that could be human (however you want to describe it) were it not for the said termination!!!!!

<font size=3><font color=lime>The crime becomes the justification!! The only reason it is "not human" is because it was aborted! The only reason it was aborted is because it's "not human!!" How did this cycle of destruction occur??</font></font>

The big loser is the foetus.

I just wonder, if I am right, what those who advocate abortion will say to the millions of souls they encounter when they cross over at the end of this life. "Sorry I thought you were sludge."

[ 08-14-2004, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

Heh, ok man [img]smile.gif[/img] You've made a fairly solid belief structure for yourself, and I certainly can't begrudge you that.
In your world, these foeti (is that the plural of foetus?) have souls, in my world, they don't ;) In your world, people live on after death to confront the souls of the 'wronged', in my world, they don't.
You certainly have every right to say that your subjective truth holds more weight with you than mine does. No worries, and no hard feelings huh?

Well said Hierophant, and Yorick. This is one of those discussions there is no right or wrong answer just reletivity to your belief structure. That's probably why there is a ban on relegious discussion, the conversation just deteriates after time with no chance for change.

Heh, ok man [img]smile.gif[/img] You've made a fairly solid belief structure for yourself, and I certainly can't begrudge you that.
In your world, these foeti (is that the plural of foetus?) have souls, in my world, they don't ;) In your world, people live on after death to confront the souls of the 'wronged', in my world, they don't.
You certainly have every right to say that your subjective truth holds more weight with you than mine does. No worries, and no hard feelings huh? </font>[/QUOTE]Never is with you Heirophant. ;) You're a champion. :D