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-   -   Berlusconi's first day as EU President (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75924)

B_part 07-04-2003 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grojlach:
But if the Parliament is in control, how did the bit quoted below happen at all, then? As I consider it to be quite a disturbing development, to be honest.
The trial to Berlusconi wasn't stopped. It was suspended and it will continue when Berlusconi will cease to be Prime Minister, which will happen before or after. The same suspension of trial would be applied to the other 4 highest authorities of the State (the two presidents of the Parliament, the president of the Republic, the president of the Supreme Court)
That law was needed in Italy. Following the corruption trials in 1991 every guarantee which partially shielded institutional figures from the justice was removed. Before those days, to prosecute a member of the parliament or the government, special procedures had to be followed. Afterwards, anyone could accuse the President of the Republic of anything and the Police would have to go and arrest him, maybe the same day he stepped out of the plane returning from an international visit.
Every democracy has special laws to protect the representatives of the people from immotivate trial. In Italy that law had to be restored, and in fact it was first drafted by Maccanico, a Senator of the main opposition party (DS).

Obviously the push Berlusconi and his cohalition gave to the law wasn't a coincidence.

My personal opinion, personal mind, is that we have two guilty parts here: BErlusconi who wants to avoid trial and the judges, who are clearly using the trial as a political weapon. The evidence for both things are really overwhelming. I don't know if Berlusconi is guilty, and I cannot know. I don't condone his behaviour, nor his stupid boutades. But I also fear the judges are more dangerous to democracy than Berlusconi.

Grojlach 07-05-2003 10:28 AM

Ah, alright... And what about the law that says evidence gathered in other countries can't be considered by Italian courts, which was introduced right after Switzerland passed information about Berlusconi's money activities there to Berlusconi's judges?

And what about the law Berlusconi introduced that "permits a defendant to ask for a hearing in a new location if there is a "legitimate suspicion" that the judges dealing with the trial are biased." A law that just popped up after Berlusconi realized he won't get nowhere with the judges in Milan?

B_part 07-05-2003 02:00 PM

The law about international documents doesn't say that. It simply says that those documents must either be original or certified explicitly as exact copies of the original. Before that any photocopy of unknown origin could be used against the defendant.

The second law you mentioned reintroduced a law principle which had been abrogated in the 90 because of those corruption charges. Nobody had objected to that until before.
But my question is, if the evidence against BErlusconi is so strong, why should anything change if you move the trial to another tribunal?

Anyway, as I said before, it's no surprise Berlusconi thought those laws were so urgent. But as I also said before, the judges are clearly acting with a political agenda.

Faceman 07-06-2003 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by B_part:
Btw:
Fascists never killed priests because the Catholic church has always looked if not favourably, at least neutrally towards fascism. There is no reason why any fascist should have killed a priest, unless it happened in the dark days of german invasion in late WWII, when pretty many crimes were committed on either side, as usually happens in civil wars.

Both my examples: The "Mühlviertler Hasenjagd" and an execution of a group of priests under martial law happened in the late years of the war when everything was even more chaotic.

B_part 07-06-2003 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Faceman:
Both my examples: The "Mühlviertler Hasenjagd" and an execution of a group of priests under martial law happened in the late years of the war when everything was even more chaotic.
Pretty many things happened in those days: Fascists killing partizans and jews(and everybody backing them, including women, priests and old people), partisans killing fascists, communist partisans killing non communist partisans, and Nazi killing all of the above.

Those were sad days indeed.

Civil wars uncover the beast in all men.


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