Six, a double post? This is unheard of. Pyrenk back off, minor tech issues can cause double posts to occur, and I'm willing to bet money that this is just another such case. Six has been around since well before me and there is no need to jump down his throat just because of one minor incident that could just as easily been caused by a glitch.

What is wrong with you people?!? I just pointed it out, because it's such a rare occurance. I don't care if he double-posts, it doesn't bother me in anyway. "there is no need to jump down his throat just because of one minor incident that could just as easily been caused by a glitch"-I don't doubt that it was a glitch. What do you mean by jumping down his throat, anyway? I just stated that he double-posted. Same thing goes for "back off".

You make it seem as if I had more than a paragraph of rant...

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned another late game Baldur's Gate resident. Skie beats all those losers, whiners, and cretins, hands down. Her talents are amazing. Her voice is astounding. No wonder people break into her estate!

;)

("I am so smart! S-M-R-T--I mean, S-M-A-R-T!")

Quite a lot, actually. I can barely even swim. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I think, Pyrenk, that Firestormalpha "lashed" back at you because your comment to me was contiguous to your contempt for those who use the Obe cheese to get extra equipment and still think that they're playing fair. So I can see why Firestormalpha misinterpreted your remarks as bile towards me: Guilt by association.

Either that or it's because your armored guy looks scary, and we're all afraid of him. How do you hit a guy with a shield that big?

As for Skie.....Man, as if Safana wasn't enough. First Imoen, then a second-class Imoen, and now a third-class Imoen. Add her completely redundant skills to her unavailabilty and her incredibly annoying soundset (I would rather tolerate Alora's voice than Skie's, and that's saying quite a lot), and then combine that with her being bonded to a character who's actually even MORE useless than SHE is, and you have yourself one Grade-A-certified <u>loser.</u> I wonder where the luckless soul who did the voice for Skie is right now....probably festering away in an asylum somewhere. (Now watch, it'll turn out that she's the same woman who did the voice for Aphril.)

In BG2, I think it's wise to pretend that Cernd doesn't even exist, and never has. The same could quite easily be said of Skie.

Okay, here's an idea for a party that would be even worse than the Candlekeep NPCs: the loser party.

NPC spoilers...
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GARRICK: His only saving grace is his soundset--somebody on the staff was a Monty Python fan! Yay! Other than that, Garrick is a prime example on how NOT to build a bard.

ELDOTH: Another bard with terrible stats and abilities, and a great soundset. I guess if you take them into a party, at least they'll talk nice...

SKIE: For reasons listed above. If I'm feeling really evil, she winds up as statuary for the Temple of Ilmater.

QUAYLE: Lemmy put it best--only 10 WIS for a cleric?! And he can turn invisible, whoopee! The poor sod must spend a lot of time being invisible, because I can't imagine why someone would want to look at him, much less keep him in a party.

TIAX: The cleric/thief is a great idea when implemented right, but like many other "loser party" candidates, Tiax falls short of greatness due to bizarre stats and abilities.

PC FIGHTER/MAGE/THIEF: Well, somebody's gotta pick up the slack. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Pir:
GARRICK:

The only thing in Garrick's favor is he's the Bard that doesn't come with Skie.

ELDOTH: Another bard with terrible stats and abilities.

Wait, wait, we haven't gotten to the craptacular part yet! Eldoth can create 6 poisoned arrows per day. But the sodding Bard doesn't come with proficiency in bows, and the Poisoned Arrows can only be used by Eldoth. Stupid stupid stupid!

SKIE: For reasons listed above. If I'm feeling really evil, she winds up as statuary for the Temple of Ilmater.

Pity there's no option to sell NPCs into slavery as you can in Fallout 2.

QUAYLE: The poor sod must spend a lot of time being invisible, because I can't imagine why someone would want to look at him, much less keep him in a party.

And might we mention that, as a mage, he can learn Invisibility *anyway*?

TIAX: The cleric/thief is a great idea when implemented right, but like many other "loser party" candidates, Tiax falls short of greatness due to bizarre stats and abilities.

Actually, Tiax's "Summon Ghast" can "Hold" something with a successful hit. As such, I rank him higher than Faldorn. Her Dire Wolf is utter crap, and her personality ("eco-terrorist") falls far short of Tiax's "barking lunatic."

Why did they save all the crappy NPCs for Chapter 5? Wouldn't it make more sense to dump them in early chapters and hold off on good NPCs as a reward for putting up with the losers? That could be a fun mod! "Loser NPC Mod" Swap all good NPCs with late-game crapplegangers!

Imoen -> Alora
Xzar -> Quayle
Monty -> Tiax
Jaheira -> Skie
Khalid -> Eldoth

PC FIGHTER/MAGE/THIEF: Well, somebody's gotta pick up the slack.

He's probably an extremely insecure Evil F/M/T to party up with this bunch. Either that or he's a stereotypical kiddie show villain. "Muhaha, Power Rangers, we'll stop you this time!" Oh, that could be a funny role...

-Lem

[ 09-04-2003, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Lemmy ]

Yes - all NPC's should have 18 in their primary stat(s), 18DEX and 16/18 CON. Otherwise they are loosers.

(yes - I'm being sarcastic)

Or perhaps we should get used to the idea that everybody aren't Bhall-children with uber-stats. If a cleric has WIS 10 (Quayle) - learn to live with it. So he is missing some bonus spells - so what. As a C/M he's still very useful.

I've completed the game with every single NPC (even Eldoth and Skie (only once though ;) ) - and by keep trying new party-combinations, I've conyinued to enjoy the game. ( I mean, It is limited how many times it is fun just to take the 'best' NPC's (Kivan, Kagain etc. though the game)

I'm not saying that they're bad. Well, maybe I am. But it's okay that they're bad. Those five happen to have neat interactions and banter that make me wish their banters were more "fixed" like in BG2. But the first time Garrick chickens out, you're cracking up. But the 26th time...

Another failing of BG1 that BG2 fixed: the greatest NPCs of the game are available in the first two chapters! At least in BG2, it's a tough choice deciding who stays and who goes in your party. If Imoen became available in Baldur's Gate, I'd scoop her up. If I didn't already have Montaron. ;)

Ar-Cunin:
Or perhaps we should get used to the idea that everybody aren't Bhall-children with uber-stats. ... I mean, It is limited how many times it is fun just to take the 'best' NPC's (Kivan, Kagain etc. though the game)

Or perhaps you can admit that, no matter how many times you've been through the game, some NPCs aren't just boring, they suck too. A character with poor stats can be made interesting, but BG1 largely didn't do that. Rather, they seemd to attach even more repulsive characteristics to the "poor" NPCs.

Who the hell would want to use a brat like Skie? Her personality alone is enough to drive one to murder, but adding insult to injury, she's a crappy thief, too! That's a problem with all late-game thieves: pre-distirbuted thief skills.

If you happen to need a pickpocket late game, well, you've got Alora. But isn't pickpocketing more useful at low levels, when you generally don't have the money to buy things? Maybe it's not; I never liked pickpocketing at any level.

If you happen upon Tiax, you'll probably snag the Level 5/6 version with Open locks 55, Stealth 45, Pickpockets 45, Find Traps 50. Jack-of-all-trades distribution. Yuck. Just what is he supposed to be used for? (Skie suffers from the same problem.) He'd be a spiffy backstabber if his strength was better and if he could actually hide in shadows. Alright, we can live with buffing, but we can't backstab without stealth: you've gotta slap the Stealth Armor/Boots on the laddie before he gets rolling. That's awful design.

<u>Bottom line</u>: BG1 has NPC excess: they made a lot but they didn't do much with them. BG2 did a much better job with NPCs, and Planescape: Torment did a simply outstanding job with NPCs. PS:T-quality NPCs are my ideal. Tons of interaction, fun abilities, and whatever else they care to throw into the mix.

"Get used to it."? I'll keep my standards, thank you.

-Lem

[ 09-05-2003, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Lemmy ]

Oh no! I turn my back for a few minutes (I'm over in IWD) and you guys start picking on my friends. It's ok to slag off Skie or even Faldorn, but lay off the small people, they have great personality and inner strength. As you all know, we at Midget Gems love to go adventuring with small companions and long may it continue.

Ps Thanks to Ar-Cunin for your contribution to the cause.