You can't cast all of those spells at once though [img]smile.gif[/img] I only need to see what you start casting and then I will play my hand.

I agree, ToB is biased for the Mage.

Almost all of the classes high level abilities are there, with the exception of the best high level ability ever... AVATAR! I am a little pissed off at this.

Clerics get this nifty HLA called Avatar. They can, for a very very short period of time, become messengers of their God. Immunity to physical damage. Special abilies granted of course, by the chosen God. They can cast any spell at any time, as many times as they need. All casting times for all spells is taken down to 1. (Insta casting Gate is fun indeed) All stats increase considerably, to Godlike levels. (On a halfway decent rolled cleric, most stats could hit 25) They also take on the appearance of their chosen God. (Think of the Avatar you summon in the Elven city) Problem is, you roll a d6 to determine how many rounds you stay as an Avatar. And after the Avatar period is over, you must rest for a week. (Then again, most of the demanded rest for Clerical spells seems to be removed from the game... Like raise dead. The cleric must rest for a LONG time to recover from doing so.)

I agree though. Most of the game is biased, leaning heavily on the mage. In game, as with most CRPGs, the mage gets the most attention while the cleric gets the shaft.

Oh well. At least Implosion made it.

Well, a Berserker Mage can actually combine The Helm of the Rock with Protection from Energy to attain Elemental Immunity. If they stack that is, not sure.

Cleric vs. Mage

No contest.

A high-level necromancer, even without project image/simalcrum, can blast the high-level cleric for an average of around 1,000 damage before he runs out of time stops.

If we want to face it in CRPG terms, in game only, and, abuse and exploit the poor engine, I would have to say a well built and carefully planned Ranger/Cleric would own a sorcerer or any mage.

Casts Sanctuary, casts Nature's Beauty. Poof! Fight over. Perminate blindness, no save.

When I played with my imported Cleric/Ranger from BG1, once I got level 7 spells, the game got boring. Every fight was the same. POOF! Fight over.

Spell Immunity: Illusion

I can be blind all day long, as a mage, and it will affect me not.

Time will never start again for the poor old ranger/cleric once it stops.

All the mage has to do is get a single time stop off, and the match is over.

Ok... So... time has stopped all day. Well, I reckon Sanctuary would last all day as well. So, if you can't target me, or, damage me for that matter, how would you plan to do anything? Being blinded, you can't cast spells EVER. Permanate blindness. As in not being able to be healed.

All this is pointless any way, as with the game engine being the way it is, to many things and fundamental rules are broken [img]smile.gif[/img] If this was PnP, things would be a lot more balanced and a good bit different. For example. Cleric under the Avatar ability is immune to time stop.

Ah this could go on all day, let's face it, there is no difinitive winner. If you cast spell immunity illusion, the easy counter would be to cast miscast magic and just walk up and smash you. You can't be immune to everything as a mage, but, you can come kinda close. Sure PfMW, spell immunity, all of that. All of which can be easily countered.

But hey, instead of high level characters, how about level 1 characters fresh out of Candlekeep. Clerics. Mages. Whomever. Who wins? I put my money on the thief [img]tongue.gif[/img] I had a Halfling thief do 22 damage to a gibberling during a backstab with the dagger +1 you can get for doing an errand.

Lets face it, there is no winner period.

Straight outta Candlekeep you'd have to go with a thief or a fighter -backstab or brute force.

Alright lets end This contest...

Chain contingency: Spell immunity: illuision, spell immunity : divination, prot from abjuration(or whatever the dispel magic is)

Spell sequencer (the best one): globe of invulnerability, prot from magic weapons, prot from energy (the one that makes you immune to damage spells like abi dalzims)

Now I'm immune to everything you have to diable me(miscast, silence etc... can't come through due to the globe of invulnerability and the spell immunities)

I'm near immune to you damage: prot magic weapons, prot from magical energy

And I cast time stop faster than any of your high-up damage spell.(cause of robe of vecna and amulet of power)

So you cast sanctuary before my timestop? No problem... I cast improved alluctricity and realease 3 firebreaths on your head along with an in-game chain contingency of 3 abi dalzims horrid wilitings...thats a total of 60d10 fire and 60d8 magic damage in your face.

Cleric:DEAD

THAT was doing it the hard way

The easy way is to have a chain with 3 abi dalzims
and a sequencer with 3 fire arrows.

Well since some of you folks seem a bit er um, retentive in the rear area, I thought I should bring this up. Somebody mentioned dragon's breath and flame arrows. You did actually read the post carefully right, and, you do have the capasity to realize once you reach over 100% fire resist because of the game's engine, that fire damage actually heals you.

**Sigh** The Baldur's Gate series has probably ruined all sense of tabletop role playing. I could see a level 1 mage fresh out of school sitting down and asking the DM "Where the fudge is my frigging Amulet of Power and Robe of Venca?"

On only an ever so slightly related note, I am pondering a nOOd cleric someday in the near future. I was thinking a Priest of Helm would be best, since Helm sees all, no sense hiding anything with clothing. Also, they get a nifty sword they can use that springs from magical means. Then, there is Flame Blade, Spiritual Hammer, Sol's Searing Orbs, etc. Since everything is so item based it might be fun to go through the game with no items at all. Barkskin can be used for armor and saving throws.