Well, I agree with what you said about that parent, I personally would probably feel more punished if I knew how much I had disappointed my parents rather than just have them cuff the idea in to me.</font>[/QUOTE]Tal, most children arent quite as well behaved and logical as you seem to be. More often than not trying to use logic on a child is wasted breath. Human beings are not vulcans. If logic would work on even half of humainty the world would be a vastly different place...unfortunately I think your thoughts may be of a utopia that does not exist.

<font color=skyblue>I must say, if treated too lightly, and used as the first means of punishment, a smack could lead to abuse, due to the example of smoking. You start with one cigarrete. Then in five years, how many are you smoking? Some people can keep the count low...but others fall into a crazy chain smoking frenzy, needing two lit at once to give them the same effect that one did back then.

Depending on the chemistry of a person, their intellect, and upbringing, as well as their social surroundings...one smack could lead to murder in the years to come.
I am speaking in terms of theological ideals,,,but based on what I have seen and feel...if a person can easily without regret hit a child in anger...that man/woman could have a future of trouble.</font>

Absolutely agree. I can only speak for myself of course, but I did feel the same way about this as a kid. I have had a smack or two or three when I was out of line, but they didn't make me feel that bad. What made me feel really bad was feeling guilty over disappointing or angering my parents. I do believe there are different forms of "fear". Instilling fear of disappointing a parent sounds to me as much more effective and at the same time as better treatment of the child than instilling fear of pain/physical punishment.

As I mentioned previously on the second page I believe, I am thrilled that I have never chastened my children in anger. I am happy that I have never had to resort to any form of physical reprimand with my 16 year old daughter Brittany and she is one of the most stable and well balanced children I have ever known. I also regret the one time that I gave my son a single light swat, as at least in my own circumstances, I think I could have found a better solution if I had thought things through a little more. I am in no way criticizing those who have found it necessary to implement some form of corporal punishment under certain circumstances so please understand that. I agree with my friend Yorick, that positive enforcement is the best proceedure if it is at all possible. At least for me, reasoning with my children and talking things out with them, showing them that I respect them as people, but that I am obligated to instruct them in humane behavioral patterns has proven very successful. I am also overly thrilled that my children very, very rarely try to resolve thier personal problems with others in a violent manner. I feel very fortunate that for me, the way I have endeavored to raise them has taught them to think things through and seek rational and reasonable solutions to their problems and to consult me when they are at a loss as to how to deal with certain situations.

Absolutely agree. I can only speak for myself of course, but I did feel the same way about this as a kid. I have had a smack or two or three when I was out of line, but they didn't make me feel that bad. What made me feel really bad was feeling guilty over disappointing or angering my parents. I do believe there are different forms of "fear". Instilling fear of disappointing a parent sounds to me as much more effective and at the same time as better treatment of the child than instilling fear of pain/physical punishment.</font>[/QUOTE]Exactly how I feel, and I believe it is much more effective to make a child see that the consequences of doing something wrong is hurting someone they love, rther than the knowledge they'll get a spank or whatever method.

Wrongo boyo. In the United States for the most part, parents are in fact allowed and permitted to spank their children. I have every right to "assault" my child if I feel it is what is called for.

This has actually been the way of things as far back as the written history of man can trace, the modern fantasy that physical punishment was damaging didnt really come to lite till the 1960's and we see how well mannered the worlds children have become.</font>[/QUOTE]Yes and hopefully they will make a amendment and take that "right" away. A human also has the right to self-defence I hope your kids smack you back someday.

Wrongo boyo. In the United States for the most part, parents are in fact allowed and permitted to spank their children. I have every right to "assault" my child if I feel it is what is called for.

This has actually been the way of things as far back as the written history of man can trace, the modern fantasy that physical punishment was damaging didnt really come to lite till the 1960's and we see how well mannered the worlds children have become.</font>[/QUOTE]Yes and hopefully they will make a amendment and take that "right" away. A human also has the right to self-defence I hope your kids smack you back someday.</font>[/QUOTE]Caleb, Im not even goiong to reply to you any more.

MagiK, that line of thinking supports the noncorporal punishment argument.

For the punishment to work, it is assumed the child has the logical powers to associate the pain with the misdemeanor. However, the stronger, simpler logic is that the pain is associated with the inflicter.

This of course assumes that beating a child is a punishment, and not gratituous release of frustration on behalf of the parent.

Goo dpoint, Yorick. If the kid is too young to associate one with the other, then the smack holds no value whatsoever

No positive value anyway, and then the child will just think that you are hitting them and being nasty to them, if they, as you say Magik, aren't very logical and will only obey out of fear.

[ 05-17-2002, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: Talthyr Malkaviel ]