Yes, they are about the only thing that can make cavarly fear.

Hey, I've been playing as the Turks (since I managed to conquer the world as the Danes [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] ) as I wanted to try a Muslim faction. I've managed to get rid of Egypt and have taken Trebizond, Anatolia, Georgia and Lesser Armenia from the Byzantines, then I went for a ceasefire to give myself some time to consolidate (was starting to run out of money :D ).

Anyway the camels have been invaluable in neutralising the Byzantine kataphraktoi, and I've purposely held back my own Ghulams until the enemy are routing. I've been using mainly spearmen but am now able to get some Saracen infantry but it's taking a while to replace all the spears obviously. My main attacking infantry are urban militia and Ghazi infantry, both are ok but neither are on a par with even the basic feudal men at arms or vikings I had as the Danes. Do Muslim factions (specifically the Turks) get any decent swordsmen? I'm having a bit of trouble breaking up all those enemy spears without a sword line to wrap around them - the Ghazi are more axemen (although useful against armoured targets) while the urban militia are basically just upgraded peasantry with a polearm. What's going to be the staple of my army without swords?? [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

The Turks are one of my favorite factions - I tend to rely on the Futuwwas as my swordsmen, at least through the beginning and middle periods. They take high casualties in a prolonged battle but because of their high morale they keep fighting regardless. I generally keep them behind my spears at first so they can get shots off from their bows, then attack the weakest parts of the enemy lines. They just never seem to waver, no matter the situation. I love those guys, they're one of my three favorite units in the game.

The Turks are fun. That is the faction I am playing recently.

I love harrassing with the mounted archers. In a battle last night the Egyptian spearmen were running away in 3 different directions thanks those units and thier constant arrow bombardment/skirmish tactic. All the while my spearmen routed the Egytian camels into some units of my own camels who snuck around. Poor Egyptian archers only had some peasants to protect them from my heavy calvary. The fools withdrew with reinforcments still waiting although they outnumbered me two-to-one! [img]graemlins/evilhaha.gif[/img]

I just can't wait til the Egytians are done so I can consolidate a strong line to the north by taking some Bynzatine land, and then my goal is to unite all Muslims under the Turkish flag by destroying the Almhods. Next is control of the Med, and then Europe is my oyster! :D

Did I mention I love this game! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

I'm waiting to be able to get Janissary infantry and heavy infantry...till them I've also had to change my approach (I was playing the Danes before and they had some awesome front-up units) - lots more micromanagement and relying on harrying with Turcoman Horse (basically my entire vanguard is made up of Turcoman Horse or Horse Archers) and basically having the centre a primarily defensive army with spearmen and Saracen Infantry, with some Ghazis and Muwahids to charge when someone gets pinned by my spears. The problem with the Ghazis is that while their morale is high they're pretty useless man-to-man - they get decimated in a big way (though at least they don't rout). I tried using Ottoman infantry to replace my swords as my spearkillers but they're useless too! [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

I'll just have to stick it out till I get the Janissaries I think...

Hmmm...I take it back about Ottoman Infantry - they're actually pretty good once you learn how to use them...:embarrassed:

I haven't gotten far enough up the tech tree to have Ottman's yet-How do you use them?

Ottomans are like a souped-up version of futuwwas so they have a bow AND an axe - so they're basically great for sending against any of the Catholic or Orthodox armies which happen to be armour heavy (axes has an armour piercing bonus). So you can put them in your van and set them on skirmish, they will retreat behind your Saracen Infantry when the enemy charges, then you can shower them at will while they're pinned by your Saracens. Then when they run out of ammo you charge them from the flanks and they'll rip the enemy apart - I had a unit of 60 Ottoman Infantry that destroyed 180 feudal men at arms while they were pinned by 100 Saracens, the feudals were slit open like tin cans. They're quick enough to run down routing foes as well.

Against armoured foes they're great - but don't use them against lightly armoured Muslim or Slav units as their bonuses are negated...

Cool Memnoch! I started a late era Turks campaign to check them out. My kind of unit!

Hey,

Are Saracen infantry better than the Muwhadi foot infantry in your expirience? According to the unit guide it seems the Muwhadi have better charge, attack, speed, and moral but worst defense and armor.

I plan on using a mix of both, I think.

Well, I haven't got the unit guide, but I've found that Saracens are much better at holding the line because their defence rating is better, and there are more men in the unit so it doesn't get wrapped as much. Muwahids I'm finding are great as reserve troops, because you can use them either defensively (to plug holes in your line) or offensively (to flank). Ottomans are great as long as you're fighting heavily armoured foes - they're not great fighting your fellow Muslims in the desert (I prefer to use futuuwas for that, they are better against lightly armoured opponents).

I've had to change my tactics considerably to adapt to these Turkish hybrid units - but I'm really starting to enjoy using them. I just fought two MASSIVE battles with the Byzantines over two years to try and get control of Nicaea - they had twice as many troops as me over the campaign, they had heaps of Byz infantry, kataphraktoi, spears, trebizond archers, napthas and a whole bunch of peasants to support them - they had four armies in there, maybe 3000+ troops. All I had was Turcoman Horse, Ottoman Infantry, Saracens, Muwahids and one Ghazi suicide squad. AND I BEAT THEM!!!! :D :D :D It was tough though, the first year I sent in four units of Turcoman horse to basically try and decimate as many of their expensive units as possible and I managed to waste some of their valuable kataphraktoi and Byz infantry units before withdrawing when I ran out of ammo. Then the second year I staged my initial assault. I used my Turcomans to split their army, their spears and archers drew away, exposing the peasantry and infantry which I rained arrows down on. When the Byzantine infantry charged they hit my Saracens head on, while their peasants routed. My Saracens pinned the infantry while my Muwahits flanked and charged from the side (they've got a very high charge rating). Meanwhile the spears basically got cut to shreds by my Turcos though two of the four units got decimated by their archers and they ended up routing (but I didn't need them by then). They had reinforcements pouring in like you wouldn't believe, I was all out of arrows, and their general just would not die, I had my entire army attacking him but he was like Drizzt Do'Urden, almost impossible to kill. He finally fell after 10mins of real time trying to bring him down with my entire army surrounding him. Unbelievable. [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

BTW, you shouldn't need a late-era campaign to get Ottoman Infantry Chewy - all you need is a Keep and a Bowyer's Shop. I got them well before I got futuuwas (since I held off on building castles till as late as possible).

[ 09-12-2004, 05:08 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]