Ironworks Gaming Forum - Should we LOVE the Kobolds, not hate them? ~continued~

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- - Should we LOVE the Kobolds, not hate them? ~continued~ (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3182)

Quote:

Originally posted by Link:
why no be Koman? People might think of you as a new superhero, with such a fancy name ;) [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

No - I think this tread already got too many Komen :D

I'll rather search a dark cave and find some small flying mammals to become a batman :D

A lot of the arguments also goes for ants and the likes (ie. hieracy, language/communication etc.).

Go ahead and save the kobolds - I would be more than happy, if the kobolds reacted like rabbits and squirrels do (does someone have a MOD?). I do not want them extinguised if they kept their own business and gave the 'poor' adventures a fair travel (and sleep). Until then, I will keep smacking them to pieces as my answer to their aggressiveness.

[img]graemlins/greenbounce.gif[/img]
Insane

[img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img]

Speaking of chicken; ever seen the screenshots of the fabled Lord Raptor? He was a character made by a member here called Lord Shield. Looked like a chicken [img]smile.gif[/img] I laughed so hard when looking at the screens that I fell of my chair :D

Quote:

Originally posted by Link:
Well said, The Lilarcor, well said. I am quite relieved to see that is it not only me who thinks that way, but also most honourable Sythe and you too. Concerning the matter, however, I promised to go on about the human advantages of Kobold Integration. And so will I do now.

As we all know, we are talking about the important subject Kobold Integration (K.I.) here. I'm glad to see that numerous people have set there minds to cunning mode in order to display why we should integrate a minor race such as kobolds in our society, but only in the viewpoint of the kobold. None of us, or, in each case, none of us has successfully shared an argument for our own sake, why we should vote "Yes" when deciding about Kobold Integration.

To be quite honest, I find this lack of thinking a bit disturbing. Of course, being the altruistic persons that we are, we think of others first, and that is no wrong thing, on the contrary. One must always think as much about as one does about him or herself. And that is where the lot of you fails: you only want to look at it from the Kobold's point of view when you think about why we should allow kobolds to integrate.
This is important because our opponents in this matter tend to get away with arguments as: "They smell bad" and "They fart" concerning kobold's sake, and come with arguments as: "They threaten our existence as adventureres" whilst talking about our own sake. And to my great dismay I have not seen any decent reply concerning these matters, save for the noble speech of Lilarcor who tells us that 'the profession of adventuring is to seek adventure, not wander in the wilderness having a dull life'. But this, also, is a more lame reply than I had hoped to see.

So what have I got to say about the matter then? In my honest opinion it is of vital importance that we look at our ourselves, and what benefits we have to gain from a possible Kobold-Human alliance. And of course, I understand, exchanging knowledge, establishing trade routes, and sharing a military enemy are one of the more common things one thinks about then. But I propose we delve deeper into the matter and think of the more deepgoing consequences we will face when kobolds will be integrated in our society. Generally speaking I will therefore have a speech that consists of two parts: the obvious advantages, and the second part where I will display the more deeper advantages, which, I trust, not everyone here knows about.

<font color="white">OBVIOUS ADVANTAGES</font>
As I have already mentioned, there are some obvious advantages to be had when we consider Kobold Integration;
- Exchange of Knowledge. As we all know: knowledge is power, and there can never be a sufficient amount of knowledge, for there is always more to be learned. And in my honest opinion we can gain a lot of knowledge (not only concerning Kobold society and everything close to that) by simply allowing kobolds to integrate in our society. I wish to ask the participants of this debate to take a moment and think about it for a while. Think of what we can learn from the kobolds: we gain excessive knowledge about their society, as I've already pointed out, for one thing. They could share their knowledge about certain wilderness area's so we wouldn't have to risk sending expensive expeditions to explore them. These are but the few things that we have to gain when the both us exchange our knowledge. And believe me: there are many more; I honestly believe that you can think of certain advantages yourself as well.
- Establishing Trade Routes. The greedy we are, the more we focus on economic advantages when we decide about certain points. Therefore I will not ignore the economic point that we're facing here. As we all know, trade, if not taken lightly, is something that gives us profit. We trade common goods for uncommon goods with the kobolds, to give an example. And with these new trade routes our economy gains a new boost, and economies are the main support pillar in a society, as we all know. Frankly speaking, I think we should not let our preemptiveness speak because Kobolds 'are smelly, and ugly' but think of what we have to gain for ourselves. A better, cheaper life? Isn't that what everyone wants?
- Sharing Military Enemy. This point is one of the more obvious as well. Picture the Zhentarim, having set up an army, attacking the city of Neverwinter, a city which lies secluded and thus the armies we send to their aid may not arrive in time. Nowadays the city would be lost, and we could do nothing. But if we allow for Kobold Integration to happen, I'm sure that we could send a Kobold army to help the people of Neverwinter out. A minor example of something that is a mutual advantage to both our races; kobolds help us out, we help kobolds out. Not to mention the fact that we have an enemy less (the kobolds themselves!).

<font color="white">DEEPER ADVANTAGES</font>
Short but valid points, I'd say. If I were lazy, then I would leave it this way. Alas, I am not, and I feel it is my duty to point out deeper motives for allowing Kobold Integration;
- Genotype Mixing. The famous scientist and evolution expert Charles Darwin has already pointed out that the evolution is the key to survival. The fittest to the current situation are adapted best, and will survive to meet a new age, while the weak (physically and/or mentally) will perish. We do not know what the future will bring, but the exchange of Kobold and Human genes creating the "Humold" or the "Koman" might prove to be beneficial. We must of course consider these more advanced points as advantages as well.
- Kobolds Can Do Any Task. As we all know, kobolds are smaller, a bit more agile and better adapted to rough life than humans are. Kobolds are therefore more fitting to do our dirty work; they may prove just as silent assassins (with their bow and arrows), they can pick up the garbage, or serve as lab experiment animals. This can prove quite useful, believe me.

My mind hurts because of thinking so much. I fear I must take a rest, and leave the floor to someone who is willing to take it.

Without further or due, I remain

Link
Spokesman extraordinaire

Looking at this work that you have put into Kobolds I have to ask a few questions. One do you detest the KAK, as the leading spokeman of this leading organisation at the current time on this topic (in other words I hold the board at the moment)? Two can I ask if you have ever been attacked by a kobold in Nashkel mines, far away from kobold territory and lastly are you imitating me. I suggested some of those things from a KAK point of view (you can checck the original thread for this)
I await the answers

Myrddin L'argenton [img]graemlins/greenbounce.gif[/img]

OOC: I'm not imitating you, that is pure coincidence, on my word.

And yes I'v been attacked by Kobolds in the Nashkel mines. They probably drank too much of the green iron-poisoning stuff so their minds were clouded and they attacked you. ;)

And lastly; I'm just a guy with way too much time on his hands.. This thread is a way to spend time ... useful ;)

If you were paid, extorted or blackmailed to go to a mine and help the supposed owner from supposed intruders, you probably would too, don't blame the kobolds for being at the mine, when any other human would probably be doing the same thing. If they attacked you, its probably because their scared of their boss or being paid well, in other words, adventurers, just against us. And considering they are probably cheap labor because we humans want too much pay..
What I am saying don't lay blame on kobolds for the mine and don't use the mine as a reason to go and kill them.

I hath retured after my long journey. Crossing lands with my friend Ko spreading our word of integraiton!

What has mankind being doing since the beggining of time? Making a perfect society. They has been many attempts to do this all have failed or have succeded but only for a few moments. Friends, Countrymen LEND me your ears.

We all know that war is like the Nine Hells. Chaos,Misery, and Death. We are having a war all over Fae'run. Orc raids, war between the local townspeople and goblins. No sane (wo)man would want this to happen. I admit that Kobolds are a threat. But we all must see that violence would just stir up more violence. Both sides hate each other. Hate cannot drive out hate it is impossible. The cure to this problem as I have said many times before is toleration(is that even a word?). I know that many of you such as Dragonshadow cannot love kobolds. Mayhap because you like thousands before you has had an horrible expirence with Ko and his race. If you cannot love them then that is alright. I don't expect to live to see the day when all the races live in harmony. Respect them that is simple. Just leave them alone. All kobolds are not the same, you think all Humans are all the same? If you said yes then I demand you come over here and chop off your head for stupidty.

We are all living in an age of great change. A change that would change the face of Fae'run mayhap the world. We all want peace all of us. But how can we have peace if we want to wipeout an entire race. That is terrible. That is immoral and Chaotic EVAL!! An entire race with a long history who may have done many great achievements. Achievements that bettered this dangerous world. And with a potential to do more of these amazing feats in the future. Kobolds I believe have not done huge achievements to better this world. I know that they have the potential though to do it. We are stopping them we are a giant dam stopping the their flow of potential achievements.

I am now standing up and have grabbed myself an hammer. I am right now and will not stop hitting the dam until it comes down. I cannot do this alone I need your help. Once we do this the world would be a brighter place and we would all get more respect. Dragons would think "These lesser races have done the unthinkable integrating with their past foes."

Sincerly

Spokesman for Ko and his people
Lord Sythe

Quote:

Originally posted by Sythe:
Friends, Countrymen LEND me your ears.

Hmm. I have a nice collection of kobold ears you can borrow. Last time I counted there were 2310. I have extended the collection a bit since then :D

[img]graemlins/greenbounce.gif[/img]
Insane

I am not totally against kobolds i was just stating a few small facts and if this is what you call agony or pain i would wonder what it is like to be in an extremely happy mood considering i am in a good mood. Also did you ever notice the bad guys always get the cool armour, cool weapons, cool items, cool spells eg. (and the bad guys don't always lose or how would they get so powerful)
[img]graemlins/showoff.gif[/img]

- some adventurers would go out into the wilderness just to hunt kobolds or there might be places to go treasure hunting in the wilderness. wouldn't it be cheaper to just send a few adventurers out for a few hundred gold than pay millions on integregating the kobold into our society and facing a line of problems.

- so what is the most furtile manure in the realm of faerum. and if the dragon ate kobold would not his or her faeces be almost as furtile as the kobolds. so you could hire one dragon to fertilise your field or 100 kobolds. Not to mention that the dragon has the gift of flight therefore they can see where they have been before.

- Some of my good friends happen to be in the bandit trade for your information and are you saying that a band of so called 'low life scum' can integregate the kobold succesfully and your 'flourishing civilisation' can't. Not to mention the bandits have been able to integregate gnolls , xvarts and hob goblins into the human society before.

- There are many disadvantages of being a Koman for one you would probably pick fights with all the big tough kids at school and get bashed up,be teased an awful lot, you probably would have a very low intelligence so there would be almost no hope in being a great sorcerer or mage if tou wanted to be one, you probably couldn't carry very heavy objects for example wear plate mail or full plate mail armour if you could even find some that fitted your unique body shape, and on and on the list goes......Makes you wonder if some of these people aren't already Koman [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Oh and Sythe you will be hitting that dam for quite a while there [img]graemlins/evillaughter1.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Sythe:
I hath retured after my long journey. Crossing lands with my friend Ko spreading our word of integraiton!

What has mankind being doing since the beggining of time? Making a perfect society. They has been many attempts to do this all have failed or have succeded but only for a few moments. Friends, Countrymen LEND me your ears.(I'D RATHER KEEP THEM)

We all know that war is like the Nine Hells. Chaos,Misery, and Death.(WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER SIX?) We are having a war all over Fae'run. Orc raids, war between the local townspeople and goblins. No sane (wo)man would want this to happen. I admit that Kobolds are a threat.(THANK YOU) But we all must see that violence would just stir up more violence. Both sides hate each other.(SO WHY DON'T WE KILL EACHOTHER?) Hate cannot drive out hate it is impossible.(NOT IF WE KILL THEM ALL!) The cure to this problem as I have said many times before is toleration(is that even a word?). I know that many of you such as Dragonshadow cannot love kobolds.(RIGHT THERE) Mayhap because you like thousands before you has had an horrible expirence with Ko and his race.(MANY) If you cannot love them then that is alright. I don't expect to live to see the day when all the races live in harmony. Respect them that is simple. Just leave them alone.(THEY TRIED TO KILL ME! I MUST TAKE REVENGE!) All kobolds are not the same, you think all Humans are all the same? If you said yes then I demand you come over here and chop off your head for stupidty. (OH BUMMER, THAT'S ME GONE)

Lord Sythe

Since when were you a Lord, Sythe?
Listen, like humans, I admit that not all kobolds are the same. if they keep away from me and don't attack, i shall do the sam eot them. Problem is, they attack me. They never learn from their mistakes. If they did, I would have no reason to kill them.

DS

Quote:

Originally posted by Lord Dracon:

- Some of my good friends happen to be in the bandit trade for your information and are you saying that a band of so called 'low life scum' can integregate the kobold succesfully and your 'flourishing civilisation' can't. Not to mention the bandits have been able to integregate gnolls , xvarts and hob goblins into the human society before.

Well, the reason bandits can do it because unlike society, the bandits don't care what race is with them as long as they are successful and make a profit. Society on the other hand hold racist views of all races that aren't humanoid that regularly don't live in their cities. So of course it is easier to integrate those species into rogue bands which follow illegal trades, because you don't have to deal with the opinions of a whole nation.
And because those bandits integrate them into their parties, the kobolds and other races recieve bad names for doing illegal activity when the bandits do a major raid.