Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

In general, I don't most allow kits in my campaigns, but a lot of players request them, so... But a lot of them are useless, anyway (i.e. the berserker kit sounds cool, but you need TEN rounds to start your rage, so - basically it is useless.)

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

I'm sure there are a few good kits, a few crummy kits with the vast majority being somewhere in between.

As a DM, I'd much rather that a player came to me with an idea for a new class than used a kit, unless the kit was exactly appropriate for the adventure.

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

As for wizards and swords - I don't think it is too much to allow that (at the least, you could let them use two proficiency slots to take a sword).

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

I'm down with mages using swords if handled properly. I just can't get on board with hobbits casting spells, or dwarves casting spells, or 99.9% of the elves casting spells. To me, it's not Middle Earth anymore, it's red box Dungeons and Dragons. Nothing wrong with it, just it's a different thing.

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Yah, I agree :)

Magic used to be rarer in the older D&D, I think - Forgotten Realms raised everyone's levels and the frequency of magic in general (magic shops, etc.), changing the atmosphere a bit.

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

I just read an article by a DM talking about magic shops. He though that they should exist in bigger cities and magical items should cost a lot more than they do in today's computer games. He thought they should be even more than in the 1e rules. :)

I don't know if y'all are familiar with the old AD&D news group, but it's still alive and well as a google group.
A lot of the talk it about 3e+ but there are still a lot of people playing the earlier editions. And, the archive is searchable. :)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.g...pics?hl=en&lnk

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Ah yes - there is sometimes some good stuff in there (but of course it is very well-hidden among the not-so-good stuff).

The general rule was (for 2e) that magic shops were a no-no, but the Forgotten Realms had lots of these (and in 1e, prices for magic items were listed, while they were taken away in 2e).

I think that magic shops might be feasible, but very expensive - the worst thing is that they would probably be attacked by a majority of adventuring parties, as a magic shop is much easier to sack and loot than a dark and dangerous dungeon (plus, the loot may be better!).

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

I generally do not make magical available in shops. Mostly, b/c with the way DC works, there's an infinite number available.

I have been thinking about trying something for my mod which will be a quest with a string of who pays events for magical items (not weapons).

I do remember a very early game of AD&D that I played as Manikus the Ranger. We were in a large city and were at a shop that sold magic items. There were two iron goelms on either side of the door, protective spells cast in the shop and several guards that individually could have taken our whole party out. Oh, and we couldn't even come close being able to afford the cheapest item. :D

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Well - there is always an adventuring party with higher levels, not to mention wandering greedy demigods and demons :)

Basically, in the Realms, only Elminster and the like could really have a magic shop, I think...

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

But in DC we have much tighter control over the Forgotten Realms universe.

I tend to agree with you though, except for potions and scrolls, I think there might be a few places selling those, as long as it's only a small number of lower level/weaker items like a potion of cure light wounds. I would think that low level, easily produced items might be in abundance just b/c there are so many people that can make them.

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Another 1e question. :)

Assassins - they perform as a thief that is two levels lower. What does this mean for first and second level assassins? No thief skills, 1st level thief skills or lower thief skills (lower than 1st level)?

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

I never found a good clarification for that in the manuals, so I assumed that it meant that assassins did not have any thief abilities (except set traps and backstab) until level 3 (just as a paladin cannot turn undead until level 3).

So until then, assassins are basically sort of crappy fighters that can set traps and try to get a single good killing shot on people. :)

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

That sounds reasonable to me. :)

Alright, now I'm back to slogging through Player's Handbook. :D

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Regarding Magic Shops, the idea of buying one shot items like potions kinda makes sense. But in any self respecting kings domain, there would be a lot of controls over the manufacture and more importantly the sale of superior armor and weaponry.

ST

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

I think that's a good rule of thumb for anywhere.

As a DM, I don't think you should be able to buy a +5 anything, or a +4 or a +3 or a +2, but maybe a +1 if you're in the mid-levels, say 8-14 and it would cost way too much to be worthwhile. :)

Actually, I don't even like the idea of PCs being able to get +4 and above (unless it is absolutely essential to the story). Very powerful NPCs might have these items, but they are the type of characters that are not likely to join a band of adventurers, or be defeated by them. :) Just my $.02. :D

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Yeah, and if there was the Uber-powerful weapon that has a +5 bonus; and you wanted to put it into the story: Make it part of the story. Make it a named weapon with a history and/or legend and perhaps include a group who are bound and determined to get the weapon back by any means.

Stuff like that makes +5 weapons worth the magic bonus.

ST

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

We're on the same page here. :)

Related to this are the folks that always max out their characters stats (on the computer at least). Honestly, if you're all 18s, wearing +5 plate, with a +5 shield and a +5 helm with your +5 boots of infinite movement and your +5 longsword that casts meteor swarm at will and wish 3 times a day, what is the point of doing anything short of hunting deities? :)

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Yeah - basically a person with all 18s would be Olympic-level athlete (picture a champion sprinter Arnold Schwartzeneggar) with an IQ of 180+, the sagely insights of a spiritual leader, AND a charming personality and good looks to boot!

The only thing that could hurt such a character is, of course, bad dice rolls.

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

In NWN, I know of several people who got together to create a hakpak that boosted character ability scores, b/c for some gamers, all 18s (or whatever the equivalent is in 3e) isn't good enough.

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Well, then - those would be more like demigods with the strength of titans, IQ of 250+ (Einstein? Ah - I taught him!), speed of cheetahs (or more), a healing factor a la Wolverine, immunity to being fooled/beguiled, and looks that can charm/awe onlookers automatically :D

...but with the hit points of a 1st level character...

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

A god in a child's body, so to speak. :)

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Or maybe just a really weak god (but still a god). :)

(An owlbear might be able to take one out pretty quickly, though.)

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

I had a way of dealing with players like that. :D They tended not to stick with me for very long unless they changed their wicked ways. :)

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Change of subject:
For viewers who lack the original 1E PHB there is a site called OSRIC. This prints a free set of game rules based upon 1E, courtesy of the Wizards of the Coast Open Game License. It seems to follow the original rules closely enough.

http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/s1.html

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Actually, OSRIC is not affiliated with Wizards of the Coast, and was not done with WotC or Hasbro permission. Conveniently, WotC and Hasbro continue to look the other way and have no official comment about this rule system.

Edited to add:
This is not to say that I don't like or support OSRIC. I think it's a great idea. I just wanted to make clear that OSRIC is legally in the same boat as DC is, we're fine until WotC/Hasbro says otherwise.

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Interesting site - I like their thinking :)

I still prize my 1e material, but having that kind of thing out is very nice, too - hopefully it will catch on!

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They have a few forums around the web and there are a couple of companies selling modules to be played using OSRIC rules. The site says they have 20,000+ downloads, but I don't know if that's of all the releases or just of 1.0. I do know that they're working on version 2 which will be a lot more comprehensive and more aimed at players and dm's. One of the cool things is that the artist working on the project is quite good and has done all of hte art in the 1e style of line drawings. :)

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Yes, the art is quite good and reminescent of said 1e books! Very well done for sure!

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The only drawbacks to this project are that it's pretty small and that people are publishing supplements which aren't free. I'm all for them making some bucks, I just don't have any to spend on a system that I may never use.

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Really? I thought it was all free... it isn't?

Are the supplements "new material" or like the other 1e-derived stuff?

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

There are only two references that I've ssen available, but I don't know their content per se, as I believe the books are available as pdf or print on demand.
One, is called Monsters of Myth and is by the same writer and artist as OSRIC. As you might guess, it's a Monster Manual, but different creatures and those that are the same have a different spin on them. (I'm getting all of this from a couple of reviews.) The other book is called OSRIC Unearthed and functions the same way as Unearthed Arcana did for 1e, but it's not the same material.
There are some mods, some of which might be reference books...hard to tell. But, as far as I can tell, only the OSRIC download is free, thought I did see some character sheets, etc at Goblinoid Games...

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Ah - I see. Well, I guess "gleaned" content is free, while "new" content is not. It does seem quite similar to the d20 license kind of thinking...

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They did model the OSRIC license off of the d20 license.

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

I suppose that the monsters that WoC specified as "Product Identity" or whatever (like mind flayers or beholders, for example) were not included in OSRIC, though. (Maybe they can just rename them to something like brain flayers or beholdens :D )

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Kobalds, gobluns, dragoons, kfarts... We could prolly make a mock monster list that would be very thorough and funny :D

ST

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Thee are lots of creatures that are AD&D originals that appear elsewhere, most notably beholders. :) They're everywhere from Doom to Guild Wars.

There are enough common creatures, i.e. from mythological/historical origins that one could do a pretty nice sized book - there are 138 monsters in the book in question - with what's available. Then, there would be a second book with original monsters. :D:D:D (Maybe I'll start working on this to sell to the OSRIC community.)

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

Well - beholders are funny like that, as only their name is really "product identity" - the monster itself is everywhere (Final Fantasy had it (with the same name), Master of Magic had it (Chaos Spawn), there was a wimpy one in Big Trouble in Little China, etc. :D ).

I always did enjoy the mythological (based on mythology) creatures the most - AD&D did a good job of mixing the various traditions around the world that way. But beholders are fun, too. :)

But yeah, we can just change all the names...

Brain Flayers (Ullithids)
Beholdens
Zvart
Displacing Beast
K'Wassit?
Norkur

:)

I would revert the names of Tolkein-based monsters back to his versions, though.

Worg -> Warg (the true Old English, anyway)
Treant -> Ent
Halfling -> Hobbit

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

:) Gygax et al had changed them to avoid copyright issues, which is the same reason we'd be changing all of the proprietary names. :)

Re: Questions concerning 1e
 

We can keep warg, though (that's just Old English) :)

Guess we can change Ent to Unt, and Hobbit to Hubbit, then :D

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We can use halfling as that was a generic term used by Tolkein, but I've also just found out that hobbit predates Tolkein by at least 90 years, appearing in a work written before 1859. Hobbit is not defined, but is listed in a fairly long list of supernatural beings (including elves).
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hobbit