My advice is: Do nothing violent. Do nothing that will give him a reason to be violent towards you.

Well, many buliies don't need any rational reason.

Well, many buliies don't need any rational reason.</font>[/QUOTE]Well, giving them one still doesn't seem like a good idea. Plus, afterwards it isn't much help to say to the adults that stopped the fight: "He hit me because I called his mom a bitch!" [img]tongue.gif[/img] In that case I think HE'S the one that's going to get the sympathy, not you.

Well, many buliies don't need any rational reason.</font>[/QUOTE]Well, giving them one still doesn't seem like a good idea. Plus, afterwards it isn't much help to say to the adults that stopped the fight: "He hit me because I called his mom a bitch!" [img]tongue.gif[/img] In that case I think HE'S the one that's going to get the sympathy, not you.</font>[/QUOTE]Yes but you said do nothing violent to give them a reason, but people don't get bullied for hitting someone, they get singled out, they don't need a reason in the first place, that's what I'm saying. ;)

Well, many buliies don't need any rational reason.</font>[/QUOTE]Well, giving them one still doesn't seem like a good idea. Plus, afterwards it isn't much help to say to the adults that stopped the fight: "He hit me because I called his mom a bitch!" [img]tongue.gif[/img] In that case I think HE'S the one that's going to get the sympathy, not you.</font>[/QUOTE]Yes but you said do nothing violent to give them a reason, but people don't get bullied for hitting someone, they get singled out, they don't need a reason in the first place, that's what I'm saying. ;) </font>[/QUOTE]What I meant was: Do nothing violent. And nothing that will give them a reason to be violent. Whether it be verbal or physical.

And giving them a reason rarely helps things in any way....

[ 06-22-2002, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: Neb ]

Take my advice. Die your hair black, and wear it down into your eyes, put lots of silver nitrate around your eyes, bleach your skin white, and come to school in a trench coat, you bet your ass he'll leave you alone :D

if he tries to bulley you, make eyecontact sparingly, and when you do, give him a face that will make him cry...

7th graders are very manipulable, next year will be the year you give him knigtmares :D

Its fun, really, and if he calls you a freak, try to touch him, see how he'll deal with it, claim that you're touch will be enough to entangle his soul in eternal death and hellish destruction, :D

Yup, Goths can be quite powerfull, even in late highschool, they end up controlling the fate of the varsitey boys, exploit the best of their weaknesses, and most importantly, decieve them to the point of getting them imprisoned...

oh and be sure to only purchase a BLACK wardrobe, color is a sign of weakness...

>_>

damn this new group i'm listening to must be loaded with subliminal messages :D oh well, enjoy what the messages have to say for now... they might be able to serve you, for the side of good :D

but /)eathkiller , color realy IS a sighn of weakness!!! at least in a wardrobe :D

ah, just kick his but, hit him with a baseball, maybe,
hey or your bat, sports can be rough sometimes!

Mandorallen, Morgan, I shall say, you acted in the proper manner. I saw the proceedings. National Honor Society, Bah! Where would it get you? Let's face it, you're Italian, you were BOUND to get revenge. I'm German, I'm bound to get revenge, I just let it build and let it build, and then I get pissed off at them, and I end up making a mess of them. I'm not talking the lowly fist fight, after all, I'm half-Irish as well, and I fight with whatever advantage I can pull, be it a knife, broken piece of glass, a gun, whatever I can get. Tony Carvahlo might not be here today if he hadn't moved, the build would have killed him. Like it could kill some I know. I don't usually retaliate, but I like to. SomeGuy, do something frightening and unusual, make sure he knows you did it, and make sure it scares the piss out of him. SkullF****** is the best revenge.
EDIT: Blood and Iron solve all, those who refuse this are trampled. - A rough Nietzsche quote...

[ 06-22-2002, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Oblivion437 ]

Violence is not the best solution, ever, and it is always only a temporary solution at most. Plus, you reap what you sow. Be violent and people will be violent towards you.

He will not be around these people forever, unless they are being violent towards him he can ignore them, I ignored my bullies for 9 years. No violence. And I got rid of them.

The only time to be violent is in self-defense, and then only if your life or permanent damage towards your body might occur.

To be quite honest you people with your violent attitudes scare me. Are you being f***ing serious? I honestly thing that you're a bit messed up, consider the virtues of pacifism.

but it took you 9 years, Neb !! Do you realy want SomeGuy to get picked on for 9 years?? After i kncked the 2nd kid down a flight of steps the kids who picked on me got nevouse and left me alone. It only took about 2 weeks.

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword. Live by violence and you will DIE by violence. You reap what you sow. Why cannot people realize this? Sheesh, is it really that difficult? Or are people just too damn blind and stupid half of the time?

Hunter, you may kick the shit out of all of your problems. But then anyone who's problem you become will kick the shit out of you to get rid of you as well. Whereas if you ignored them they might ignore you. If you talked your way through things they might try to talk with you.

Violence breeds violence. War breeds war. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. It's 4 am, I'm in a bad mood. And I currently feel that the Earth should be nuked, cleansed of all humans and be left to begin over again.

Neb, you really haven't seen unreasonable people, have you? Try to talk to them, they do it more, try to reason with them, they do it more, these kinds must be put to the sword (Miss that way of life), or made productive. Thus my drone theory holds more weight than ever.

Then ignore them, leave them alone, others of their own kind will get in a fight with and kill them at some point. Or they'll wither and die some other way. And yes, I have seen such people. Stoop to their level and get violent and you'll be as bad as them and need to be "put to the sword" as well.

Drone theory? Meh, just violence-inhibiting chips that prevent us from harming other humans.

Remember, you reap what you sow. If you kill, you will be killed. If you hurt, you will be hurt. If you steal, from you there will be stolen. "He who fights monsters should take care that he does not become a monster himself." However he who ignores monsters or deals with them peacefully is safe.

No no no, my theory we should start mankind over as a slave race, by growing them out of flesh vats Dune style. That would be seriously technocratic.

I have not had to fight someone from school since the 8th grade. Think of it as similar to the mutual assured destruction nuke idea.

If you can handle taking it for 9 years then go ahead but some people would snap by then or become depressed.

Consider the virtues of standing up to bullys and increasing the quality of living for yourself.

<font color="lightblue">I agree with Neb.
Most of the time; all that bullies want out of you is comedy. For it to be funny to them, you need to react. Give them what they want, and they will keep coming back for more.
If you ignore them, and don`t react, they will leave you alone most of the time. If they don`t, then most probably they wouldn`t anyway. </font>

dont worry.... in the END you WILL have your revenge, even if it isnt YOU who carries it out; one day this guy is gonna PUSH SOMEONE ELSE to far, someone who WILL smack him back, and leave him crying like a baby, and when that happens, you can laugh, and you will have done nothing to 'get your hands dirty'. as Neb pointed out, voilence attarcts violence. even if it isnt you, someone else will whack him, when he picks on them. Then HE shall know fear. you *will* have the 'last laugh'.

So its not alright to defend yourself but it IS alright for someone else to do the dirty work [img]graemlins/question.gif[/img]

hey, Im NOT agaisnt defending yourself, but yes, its always EASIER to let someone else do the 'dirty work', besides, if you have a 'delicate conquince', then, everything works out fine. and besides, WHY shouldnt SOMEONE ELSE beat up this guy?

Well, I had other friends. So I got through the depression, and remember: That which does not kill us makes us stronger. For making it through that bit of hardship in my life I am now better and stronger, get used to being able to bash your way through everything and you'll be at a serious disadvantage when you can't. Sometimes you just have to endure and bide your time.

Consider the virtues of letting them destroy themselves later on so that your hands are clean. Your quality of living can also be increased by hard work without bashing down those who seek to wreck things for you, they will be bashed down themselves. Just as you will reap what you sow, they will reap what they sow.

I stand by my earlier proclamation that a lot of you are too violent for the good of society, except for a few of the people in this thread.

Interesting idea. But who would rule? Power always corrupts. What you'd need was someone genetically engineered to be perfectly honest and completely without any wishes to take things for himself. Doing stuff only for the greater good.

Defending yourself is only if you are attacked physically. Mental assaults can be ignored and weathered, you'll be all the stronger for it.

yes but cleanisng the earth? how is that any more moral then killing people? which in essence you would have to do. lol; as a christian, I beleive, that there will be a NEW earth made... there problem sovled... lol. er, sorry didnt mean to preach. and I didnt want to bring up religion either...

I shall re-iterate what I said earlier. Neb is not wrong. you must NOT react the same way

Myself (and a nuumber of other people I know) traineed up and beat the CRAP out of the people picking on us

After school? we continued in that vein. It worked in school, why not outside of it?

I am still ashamed of that period in my life and am glad to be shot of it

Like wise if you get used to bending over and taking it in the hopes it will go away you will be at a serious disadvantage. Sometimes you have to be a throwafist instead of a pacifist ;)

Assholes and jerks rule the world while the meek wait in futility to inherit it.

I think alot of you are to passive and unrealistic in your hopes that someone else will take care of your problems except for a few of the people in this thread.

[ 06-23-2002, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: caleb ]

are you suggesting that people take the 'law into their own hands'? and go on a vigalanty run? a killing spree? maybe thats a bit extreme, but thats what it amoungts to, or what it could become. I agree that too much pacism is a bad thing, but then too much of anything is a bad thing.

Different people react in different ways; there is no one way to deal with people like this. For me, the violence solution (much as I am opposed to violence in general) worked. I was teased by three guys up until I was 13, until one day before gym class (this was usually when it was worst) I really got so sick of it that when the tallest one came sauntering over I just stood up, said 'oh, just f*** off' and stamped on his knee. I got into a minor fight with the three of them which was broken up by other people in about a minute or so. But after that, I never even had the slightest problem with them, and guess what? I'm now 18 and these guys have been my among my closest friends at school for the past two and a half years.

Many people tease others because they think they are incapable of standing up for themselves and are therefore easy targets. But by showing that you have guts and are willing to put up a fight, they respect you and realize that you're not as timid and frightened as they first thought. My advice is just give it a try. If the usual methods of avoidance, ignoring and calmly waiting for it to stop don't work, what have you to lose? Okay, you'll get a bruise or two. But what have you gained? Respect, confidence, a feeling of self-worth and acceptance.

I'm not saying that every situation should be dealt with like this, but it worked in my case and I can honestly see its benefits. That is why I think SomeGuy should wait it out for a while, try different, non-violent ways to go about stopping this bullying and if that doesn't help, I think a fight is the only way to go.

Just my thoughts [img]smile.gif[/img]

EDIT: For decency [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 06-23-2002, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: Arledrian ]

Well, no reason to be a throwafist if you can make do with being a pacifist. At least none that I can see, except if you get some sort of sick pleasure out of doing violently what can be solved peacefully.

But the nice guys have friends, loyal ones. Would you rather be a rich guy surrounded by illoyal sluts and people who liked you only for your money or an averagely wealthy guy with a large group of loyal friends that loved you?

Well, we all have different perceptions of the world. We could both be right, or neither of us could.

Well, look at how you got those friends, will they be the best friend of the next guy that kicks their ass? Probably, because he'll be stronger than you. Really, lovely friends. True friends like you for your personality, not because you can beat them up.

Unless they've got a knife or are just plain psychopaths in which case you might lose a limb or two. Or a life, yours. And if you need to kick the ass of others to gain respect, confidence, self-worth and acceptance then I say that I'd rather go without it.

The only time that a fight is the only way to go is in self-defence.

You've missed the idea, Neb - I'm not going to spend the whole afternoon explaining it.

You know my hotmail address. Message me, explain it to me in chat, please. And in case you've forgotten it, it's: Nebling@hotmail.com

I think ALL of you are overlooking one VERY important thing; its someguys dession, he has the final call, all you can do is ADVISE him. Not order him around, or preach to him.

No I don't think so.
It’s just that fighting people is bad,
I had a problem with a bully once, and I just tried to ignore them and sook solace with my friends, and eventually they left me alone,
And yet lo and behold a few years later, that particular bully ended up going to a juvenile detention centre for stealing,
And from the last I heard of him:
His life is well and truly F*cked up beyond all hope of repair.
and My life is not.

[ 06-23-2002, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Dramnek_Ulk ]

I think some clarification is needed here [img]smile.gif[/img]

Alex mentioned that those guys stopped picking on him after he dealt with them. That worked for me too. However, he is NOT saying that SHOULD be the solution

You could easily pick the WRONG fights. If you do something like that, you might find they have big brothers with knives or something

The best thing you can do is hang around with good friends who at least care for your plight (just don't be too whiney ;) ). That, in itself, will alleviate the issue somewhat

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword. Live by violence and you will DIE by violence. You reap what you sow. Why cannot people realize this? Sheesh, is it really that difficult? Or are people just too damn blind and stupid half of the time?

Hunter, you may kick the shit out of all of your problems. But then anyone who's problem you become will kick the shit out of you to get rid of you as well. Whereas if you ignored them they might ignore you. If you talked your way through things they might try to talk with you.

Violence breeds violence. War breeds war. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. It's 4 am, I'm in a bad mood. And I currently feel that the Earth should be nuked, cleansed of all humans and be left to begin over again.</font>[/QUOTE]You try and talk your way out of it when you're surrounded by 4 or 5 guys who all want a piece of you, you actually think that's gonna work ? Thanks, but no thanks, i'll use a knife instead, that way i have a better chance of making it out of there in one piece !

Try listening to what I say [img]tongue.gif[/img]

When you're threatened with physical violence, retaliate with physical violence. Otherwise, refrain from physical violence. Violence should be used in self-defense only.

well, all i can say is any of your ideas can be both right and wrong... given the situation.

here is a nice story (i kinda posted in another thread) that would be nice to this discussion:
here is is:
http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...;f=10;t=009352

im putting on light to a different perspective... i recall two of my classmates fighting the first year of highschool (since they didnt know each other then) and both of them got thier ass kicked by the diciplinarian... by the end of the 2nd year, they had recoiciled and even became friends... violence can also breed respect and mutual bond and not necesarily violence. in another point of view, not bothering to a as*hole bully can also make him stop bullying you. that is how i handled things, dont bother with meaningless and trivial stuff. yet somehow, you can somehow help the bully no matter how much an as*hole he/she can be. by walking away, you give him the chance to bully others and ruin his life (just how revenge should be) or help him (violence or not) to not bully anymore and make his life more meaningful. eventually MOST if not SOME bullies mature in the future if they are only in thier teens. thats just my two cents [img]smile.gif[/img]

Well, i dont get involved in to many of the "serious issues" threads but i have to join in here. As with a lot of you here i have been in the same situation, i was the little non-agressive guy in school and was picked on quite ruthlessly as a result.
But i have to disagree with pretty much everything i have heard from neb on this thread. Neb, you strike me as a very paranoid , worst case scenario kind of person. Never fighting back, and never standing up for yourself will lead to a very miserable life. Learning to fight back teaches you many valuable leasons about yourself. By all means dont start a fight, or be a trouble maker, that wont help you in any way. But when poorly adjusted people with bad attitudes know that you will fight back, you wont be a target anymore. And i can tell you from experiance that you dont have to win them all. I've won some and i've lost some. but that really becomes irrellivent. Once they know that you will fight back and you wont be the spineless target they want, they will find easier prey.

I honestly think that people who are picked on radiate a kind of 'low self-confidence' aura which attracts the coward bullies towards them like flies.

The reason taking up self defense or martial arts can work is not because you become able to defend yourself - it's because you become more confident in yourself and respect yourself. I really think that's the key, I'm convinced that when I was a kid it was my shyness and lack of self-esteem (difficult to believe now, I know) that made me a target.