<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Melusine:


Good grief Neb, you know perfectly well what he meant.
Frankly I am saddened that so many people seem to have lost all respect for each other here. I can understand where Saz's thread about rudeness is coming from. Is it really that difficult to swallow your self-righteousness just once and accept that while you have every right to express an opinion, it's polite and respectful to stop pushing a point if you notice people are hurt by it??
This goes for people on BOTH sides, I'm not ranting at you personally, Neb.
But I really fail to see why some people feel such an urge to spout and KEEP spouting opinions that are hurtful to other people.<hr></blockquote>

Good points all Mel, but you should know, that for some people, the very fact that you disagree with them equates to being disrespectful to them (in their view that is). I can't tell you how often just bringing up the fact that you don't agree has led to much anguish :D

Sad but true!

<font color=skyblue>
"What? Magik, you are disagreeing with me?
Telling me that I do not know everything that there is to know?
How dare you!
I, the fearless [img]graemlins/stormy.gif[/img] <font color=steelblue> [img]graemlins/tgestar1.gif[/img] Modding Mage</font> [img]graemlins/tgestar1.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/stormy.gif[/img] of Ironworks will slay you where you stand you stinking evil, vile,...."

Larry looks around at everybody staring at him, shaking their heads and gritting their teeth in anger. He heard somebody whisper to call Ziroc immediately...

"Oh...sorry...I am in the wrong forum...er...excuse me!"

~Larry scurries away as fast as he can to his own lands of power...~</font>

[ 02-02-2002: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]</p>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:
Larry,

Cerek's here to give you a little Barbarian Back-up (not that you need it).
The Bible does indeed say that a man should cleave to one woman and should not "put her out except for fornication" (if she cheats on you). It also says that "if a man look upon another woman with lust in his heart, then he has committed adultery" (paraphrased).
I can't find exact text, but the Bible and Christian faith both believe that a man and woman should save themselves for marriage. I'll be honost and admit that I didn't, but that's the beauty of being a Christainl......we aren't peerfect, just Forgiven.

And AFA Christians not being tolerant, I suggest you read the Religion thread. I held a very civil discussion with Garnet (a Wiccan) and fable (a pagan). Their beliefs come nowhere close to mine, but we were still able to discuss our ideological differences in a civilized manner.

Calling the Bible a "2000 year old novel" that "contradicts itself in every statement" is NOT being civil nor respectful - whether it is said in jest or not.

Neb (and others), what would you say if I called the Wiccan's Book of Worship (sorry, but I don't know the proper name for it) a manual for demon worship? Would you tell fable or Garnet to lighten up if they took offense?
There seems to be a real double standard when it comes to Christianity. It's perfectly OK for anybody to criticize our religion or the Bible (there just expressing an opinion), but it's NOT OK for us to say "hey, I don't appreciate you making such disparaging remarks about my religion".
Like Magik(?) said, a LOT of people DO base their life and actions on the teachings found in the Bible. If you don't, that's your choice and I respect it...all I ask is that you and everyone else show us the same respect.<hr></blockquote>

Plain old member-mode engaged:

This was a good post! It bears repeating! I personally am not into anything 'wiccan or pagan' because my religous beliefs hold that I should avoid 'magic' and the 'occult'. Do I slag off the well-spoken and decent members here who have those belief systems when we meet on board? No! I respect their right to have different beliefs and as long as nobody insists I convert, I'm fine! Whatever my personal opinions, I will not go posting insulting material here.

And the part about it being fashionable to insult or ridicule things Christian.. oh Cerek! That's a pet peeve of mine from way back! In this day of Political Correctness, somehow there has come a 'backlash mentality' that says it IS ok to discredit and ridicule Christians, but not the others. Anyway.. I'm hoping we can be civil here.

Just liked what you had to say. hehe.. did you say you were a southern Baptist? LOL.. see stereotypes are not always right! Don't see you thumping a Bible and burning books while spouting about Fire and Brimstone at us all! ;) :D


edit: to the topic! LOL.. nearly forgot! I know that regarding procreation, my church does push abstinence outside of marriage. They do not excommunicate anyone for having sexual relations, but they do preach that such things are special and should be kept for marriage/love. Having said that, I admit, Nacht and I did not just hold hands all the time I was in Idaho. [img]smile.gif[/img] And to whoever mentioned fidelity after marriage - I believe in it then AND when in a dating relationship. If you are sleeping together, in my book it means a very special committment.. not just a pleasant passtime. Apologies to anyone who thinks that way, but as a friend of mine said recently "Sex is just exercise if it's not with someone you love." I can do aerobics if I need exercise, thanks! I prefer that intimate relations be just that.. intimate and special.

Cloudy

[ 02-02-2002: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]</p>

Just how many so called "religions" does America have?

Im curious, as all the new religions are made up there and all the ones with strict orders or wierd beliefs seem to come from there too

Wiccan? wtf is that and when did that get invented haha
(Kinda noticed anyone saying they are a Wicca or whatever you call it is a Yank too.......coincidence? [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

Tarox, maybe you'd like to take that question to the thread(s) on religion.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tarox:
Just how many so called "religions" does America have?

Im curious, as all the new religions are made up there and all the ones with strict orders or wierd beliefs seem to come from there too

Wiccan? wtf is that and when did that get invented haha
(Kinda noticed anyone saying they are a Wicca or whatever you call it is a Yank too.......coincidence? [img]tongue.gif[/img] )<hr></blockquote>

Err actually I seem to recall several rathere severe religions coming out of europe...coming here to escape state forced coercion to a specific religion.....so the USA has no copyright on having strict religions..and as far as I know none of the religions so far developed in the US has mass numbers of suicide bombers running around the wolrd trying to hurt innocents.... Just thought Id point these things out.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cloudbringer:
Tarox, maybe you'd like to take that question to the thread(s) on religion.<hr></blockquote>

Oops quite right cloudy didnt realize what thread I was in...definately off topic with my reply to him as well :(

So....you did more than hold hands while out west eh??? hehehehe Imagine that [img]smile.gif[/img]

I agree with what you said about sex and relationships and fidelity.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MagiK:


Oops quite right cloudy didnt realize what thread I was in...definately off topic with my reply to him as well :(

So....you did more than hold hands while out west eh??? hehehehe Imagine that [img]smile.gif[/img]

I agree with what you said about sex and relationships and fidelity.<hr></blockquote>


No problem! Things got a little cross topiced anyway. [img]smile.gif[/img] Just that a debate on the stuff you and Tarox are doing would merit it's own thread, so go ahead if you think it needs more discussion.

[img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img] err.. Ok, well, in the interests of honesty here... yes, we did. But for the sake of showing I put my money where my mouth is, I'll add that we have talked pretty seriously about the future and it is a committed relationship. [img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img] ;)

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cloudbringer:

[img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img] err.. Ok, well, in the interests of honesty here... yes, we did. But for the sake of showing I put my money where my mouth is, I'll add that we have talked pretty seriously about the future and it is a committed relationship. [img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img] ;) <hr></blockquote>

We already knew that [img]smile.gif[/img] I will admit that at one point in my life sex was umm...well just a fun thing to do with whoever you were with, but as I grew up and had children I have changed my stance a bit. As I said earlier I think two people should know EVERY part of their intended mate before comitting to a long term relationship. It certainly wouldnt be fair to find out after the fact that one person had a SERIOUS need/desire for S&M and the other had a SERIOUS aversion to it. (I use that only as an example..for myself Im allergic to pain...pain hurts!).

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cloudbringer:


Just liked what you had to say. hehe.. did you say you were a southern Baptist? LOL.. see stereotypes are not always right! Don't see you thumping a Bible and burning books while spouting about Fire and Brimstone at us all! ;) :D



[ 02-02-2002: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]<hr></blockquote>

Well, you know the saying about catching more flies with honey [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img]

Besides, you have to gently lure the heathens into the church before you can lock the doors behind them! [img]graemlins/showoff.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Seriously though, I AM a legitimate Southern Baptist, but I do prefer the "kinder, gentler" approach. My own personal circle of friends includes a Wiccan, a couple of agnostics (one of which I roomed with in college), and one VERY dedicated atheist. He and I have had several "theological debates" and I've learned a lot from them.

I've never been one to force my religion on another. I accept the fact that some people have no interest in Christianity at all. Nothing I do or say will change that, but that doesn't mean that we can't be friends and respect each other.

Thanks for the support, though. Your kind words really meant a lot.

Back to the original question, I didn't think it was the bible itself which condemned sex before marriage (I could be wrong, maybe if somebody could point out the quote)

However, I believe the Church may have condemned it. Not sure which one though

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lord Shield:
Back to the original question, I didn't think it was the bible itself which condemned sex before marriage (I could be wrong, maybe if somebody could point out the quote)

However, I believe the Church may have condemned it. Not sure which one though<hr></blockquote>

The church may have banned it...but then in the middle ages there were whole abbeys of nuns kept around for the servicing of the clergy...theres a really good account of this kind of stuff in the book "An Underground Education" By Richard Zacks.

<font color="cyan">I didn't want to cause a big debate with lots of name calling in it, I just wanted to know the answer to a question.

Also, it is hard for people not to offend other people (i.e. LS) because some people are far more sensitive than others. And in regard to living your life lightly, then I think I agree with that. Neb is just a bit fed up of everyone being so down, and condeming people for their views that might offend other views, and other basic nonsence.

Anyway, thank you for the answer. But this thread has taught me not to even bring up faith again with my original friend, who the debate was with.

:D </font>

Lav this has been a fairly decent thread [img]smile.gif[/img] there was not a lot of "heated" debate, but there was a lot of interesting discussion.
the LS issue, well it would have been understandable for people who revere the bible to be offended since the statement was offensive in nature. You can disagee with a book or idea or people without being rude. But as I saw the responses to his post, they were not harsh or mean..just some suggestions to lighten up on the christians.

I thought the thread was well done and well handled. Just my tuppence.

Well I think that the bible says that the marriage is sacred and that a woman and man should "save" themselves for that. However, lust for your nexts wife is a sin, though sex before marriage is not a real sin, and no one can blame thoose involved. See the instance when they will stone a whore. Not even Jesus is without sin. There you have respect for other people guys! ;)

To err is human, to forgive divine..

Rwo, well not that my sexual life is of any matter to you, but IMHO it´s up to the involved to decide. I have had sex and I am not married. Does that answer your question? And well I don´t regard that as a sin, since well I am not religious. However I respect every persons right to his/her own choice here.

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: WOLFGIR ]</p>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tarox:
Just how many so called "religions" does America have?

Im curious, as all the new religions are made up there and all the ones with strict orders or wierd beliefs seem to come from there too

Wiccan? wtf is that and when did that get invented haha
(Kinda noticed anyone saying they are a Wicca or whatever you call it is a Yank too.......coincidence? [img]tongue.gif[/img] )<hr></blockquote>

Er... Wicca is not an American religion, don't know where you got that from. I know loads of English people who are Wiccan. Erm... I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post, because it seems to me that you are being a bit intolerant of both Americans, and the variety of religious belief to be found in the world today. Your phrase 'weird beliefs' is not a good way to politely discuss religion, please think before posting anything rashly - religious intolerance is one of my pet peeves and I'm not about to sit around listening to intolerant rubbish from anyone, no matter what.

ON TOPIC!! - Can't comment on the bible, since I don't know enough about it, but I don't believe that marriage is a necessity. I do believe in honesty, loyalty, friendship, trust etc. etc. etc. just that you don't need a certificate to have those things.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Epona:


Er... Wicca is not an American religion, don't know where you got that from. I know loads of English people who are Wiccan. Erm... I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post, because it seems to me that you are being a bit intolerant of both Americans, and the variety of religious belief to be found in the world today. Your phrase 'weird beliefs' is not a good way to politely discuss religion, please think before posting anything rashly - religious intolerance is one of my pet peeves and I'm not about to sit around listening to intolerant rubbish from anyone, no matter what.

ON TOPIC!! - Can't comment on the bible, since I don't know enough about it, but I don't believe that marriage is a necessity. I do believe in honesty, loyalty, friendship, trust etc. etc. etc. just that you don't need a certificate to have those things.<hr></blockquote>

Hehe I knew it would happen sooner or later [img]smile.gif[/img] I do agree with you.

In modern times the official ceremony of "Marriage" seems to have taken on the importance of the actual union...and is only a formality required by governments keep tabs on who's supposed to be pro-creatin with whom [img]smile.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MagiK:


Hehe I knew it would happen sooner or later [img]smile.gif[/img] I do agree with you.

<hr></blockquote>

Blimey, I'd better rethink my position then, I don't think us agreeing is a good idea ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Epona:


Blimey, I'd better rethink my position then, I don't think us agreeing is a good idea ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

The very fabric of the universe might unravel or something ;) hehehe
Oh and by the way [img]smile.gif[/img] THIS IS MY 1000th POST [img]smile.gif[/img] IM an Emerald Dragon now!!! hehe :D

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MagiK:


The very fabric of the universe might unravel or something ;) hehehe
Oh and by the way [img]smile.gif[/img] THIS IS MY 1000th POST [img]smile.gif[/img] IM an Emerald Dragon now!!! hehe :D <hr></blockquote>

Congratulations! I think I have just gone over 2000, LOL, too much time on my hands...

Lavindathar,

Sorry it took so long. This is the only Bible passage I can find that specifically relates to sex and marriage. As you can see, it admonishes the person to avoid adultery, but doesn't address the issue of pre-marital sex. Hope this - and the other Posts - helps answer the question for yourself anyway.


<font color="plum">Proverbs 5:15-23
15 Drink water from your own well – share your love only with your wife. F10 16 Why spill the water of your springs in public, having sex with just anyone? F11 17 You should reserve it for yourselves. Don't share it with strangers. 18 Let your wife be a fountain of blessing for you. Rejoice in the wife of your youth. 19 She is a loving doe, a graceful deer. Let her breasts satisfy you always. May you always be captivated by her love. 20 Why be captivated, my son, with an immoral woman, or embrace the breasts of an adulterous woman? 21 For the LORD sees clearly what a man does, examining every path he takes. 22 An evil man is held captive by his own sins; they are ropes that catch and hold him. 23 He will die for lack of self-control; he will be lost because of his incredible folly.</font>

<font color="yellow">Wolfgir</font>

I just want to address a quibble with your previous Post. <font color="plum">Jesus WAS without sin, otherwise He could not have died for our sins.</font> I had heard the same thing (that Jesus did sin) in Sunday School when I was young and believed it for years. Then a good friend of mine explained why it was not correct.

It may or may not be an important point in your view (and that's fine, either way), but it's one of the cornerstones of the Christian Faith.

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]</p>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:
Lavindathar,
<font color="plum">Proverbs 5:15-23
15 Drink water from your own well – share your love only with your wife. F10 16 Why spill the water of your springs in public, having sex with just anyone? F11 17 You should reserve it for yourselves. Don't share it with strangers. 18 Let your wife be a fountain of blessing for you. Rejoice in the wife of your youth. 19 She is a loving doe, a graceful deer. Let her breasts satisfy you always. May you always be captivated by her love. 20 Why be captivated, my son, with an immoral woman, or embrace the breasts of an adulterous woman? 21 For the LORD sees clearly what a man does, examining every path he takes. 22 An evil man is held captive by his own sins; they are ropes that catch and hold him. 23 He will die for lack of self-control; he will be lost because of his incredible folly.</font>
<hr></blockquote>

exactly. the only references I knew of were:

don't cheat on your wife (the reference you mentioned)
don't cuckold another man's wife (the commandment)

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by AzureWolf:
If someone wants to do it then go ahead its not the end of the world. It CAN cause problems if not done in a sensible manner ie no protection.
No offence Larry but I dont know ANYONE in r/l who has not had sex before marrige. If they want to its their choice.<hr></blockquote>

<font color=orange>I quite agree with your statement. have read through the Old Testement, just recently (currently in Mathew), I can't really pin point any set rule that one should not have sexual relations before marriage. Other than those the where posted above. But I found those to be somewhat ambiguous. I think (and this is my own opinion here) that it was a rule that was set down because back in the old days (pre-contraception) single women having babies wasn't a good thing, since women had limited economic choices. Now that's not necessarily the case (at lest in most developed countries). Though it's still puts a tremendous burden on all involved (i.e. parents, grandparents, local, state and federal governments).

On the the last part of your above quote, I know several couples that have waited til they were married. I know singles (both sexes) that still haven't did the "big nasty". I personally admire them. I wish I had waited. I can say that now, looking back on 13 years of marriage and two kids with one more on the way (yes this is the big announcement, we are expecting another one in Sept.). It's one of the few regrets I have in life (I normally don't believe in regrets; what's past is past), not saving myself for my wife. My sex life prior to getting married doesn't hold a candle to what I have now, and I thought I had a fairly healthy sex life prior to my relationship with my wife.

Just a thought, that's all.

Also in answer to Tarox's post about all the new and weirds religions coming from the US. You need to get out more! Don't know where you got that from, but that not really the case. As far as the number of new religions goes, we are a fairly tolorate country and we don't FORCE anyone to proscribe to one religion, unlike other countries. If you want to be a Pagan, Wiccan, Catholic, Muslim, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, Morman, or whatever, even an Athesist, you have that right in the US. It's the First Amendment in our Bill of Rights. Here's a link encase you haven't read them or our Constitution http://navigation.helper.realnames.c...2Fexhall%2Fcha rters%2Fbillrights%2Fbillmain%2Ehtml.</font>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:

<font color="yellow">Wolfgir</font>

I just want to address a quibble with your previous Post. <font color="plum">Jesus WAS without sin, otherwise He could not have died for our sins.</font> I had heard the same thing (that Jesus did sin) in Sunday School when I was young and believed it for years. Then a good friend of mine explained why it was not correct.

It may or may not be an important point in your view (and that's fine, either way), but it's one of the cornerstones of the Christian Faith.

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]<hr></blockquote>
Oki, well in your view (not a degrading thing, this is from pure interest, does the event spoke of when Jesus tells the people that he who is without sin should cast the first stone?

In my view as only "reading" the bible, I felt like Jesus either showed alot of mercy or that he to had done some sins, but that as long as you did the right thing and forgave people and asked for forgiveness to both god and the one you had commited the sin against their was a solution..

And no Cerek, it is not an important part of my view, but since you posted about it I became interested in learning more from your point of view and I hope (paranoia posting) that I haven´t been offending or anything, I question because I am curious, and I have always found your posts very accurate and also with good information. So if you would like to tell me more, please do, either here or by mail!

Cheers!

i feel like I am being preached to here... feels really awkward reading this post :(
So many long posts! No fun!
I think we should have more fun! chill out! [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

What do I think? I think sex before marriage is okay as long as it's nothing forced or awkward... u know... *makes face*

Yes, Agree. I Think That Sex Before Marrige Is Ok As Long As Both People Feel That It Is Ok, And That They Think It Isn't Too Soon

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Beaumanoir:
Yes, Agree. I Think That Sex Before Marrige Is Ok As Long As Both People Feel That It Is Ok, And That They Think It Isn't Too Soon<hr></blockquote>

Yep mutual agreement is the best policy me thinks *nodz*

Well the Christian Orthodox Bible says that you indeed cannot have sex before marriage. And well I tell ya from my experience hardly any Chiristian-Orthodox follow that rule ;) .

You know this question has already been brought up not long ago, but in anycase our world is so futurized now that not many follow the Bible :/.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Angel:


Yep mutual agreement is the best policy me thinks *nodz*<hr></blockquote>

huzzah!!! now everybody can bonk in harmony [img]tongue.gif[/img] :D :D

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lavindathar:
I'm in a heated argument:

Does the bible say either

i) if you have sex you are married in the eyes of god? (my friends opinion, who IS religious)

or

ii)you shouldnt have sex until your married (my opinion, not really religious)

and what are your opinions!!??<hr></blockquote>


Lavindathar, I haven't read all the replies yet, but I will seek to give my opinion on your question.

There is nothing in the bible that says if you have sex you are then married.

Jesus defines marriage as three things:

1.A couple living together in their own home.
2.Having Sex
3."Cleaving together". Growing as one emotionally.

The last effect is something which takes much time. I wouldn't say that a bride and groom are completely married just after the wedding ceremony, as the cleaving can take years. The ceremony is really a public statement of intent, declaration of vows and a celebration. It's not a mystical spiritual union in my opinion. That is a wonderful process that gradually occurs.

Regarding sex outside marriage, I would say that sex before marriage is like opening your christmas presents before christmas day.

It's not the end of the world, but you've gone and buggered up what could have been a wonderful situation.

Sex creates an intimate connection with another human. It's also a gift of yourself you give to your partner, and that they give to you. It's also something that gets better the more you know the other person, and become more comfortable with each other. To have only have given yourself to the one person, the one you spend your life with, raises sexual union to a very special place between you and your partner. Sharing it around removes that specialness.

My experience was that neither I or my wife were virgins when we were married. It was a regret both of us shared as we grew closer together. Finding things that we hadn't done with others became important to us. Gave each of us something uniquely 'ours'.

Thus, the sex I had with my wife got better and better, and totally blew away anything I've ever had with anyone else.

Even so, the knowledge of a previous partner can create insecurities in some. Comparisons can be hard to avoid. Reassurances become increasingly important for some, and highlight the importance of trust and being comfortable with the other person, in order to have great sex.

If I had the knowledge of what I know, when I was younger, I would have saved myself. Indisputably.

You can't put an old head on young shoulders though, and we all make mistakes. It's not worth cutting yourself up over imperfection.

So in summary I go back to my initial statement on sex before marriage which is that it's like opening your christmas present before christmas. Not the end of the world, but something you can never 'put back in the box and forget you'd seen' once you've opened it.

Now for a real conundrum: sex after marriage?? ;)

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Yorick ]</p>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by AzureWolf:

No offence Larry but I dont know ANYONE in r/l who has not had sex before marrige. If they want to its their choice.<hr></blockquote>


Yeah but you're from New Zealand and country Australia. ;) :D

Seriously, I know heaps who didn't have sex before marriage. It all depends on who you hang around.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MagiK:
When the bible was written sex and procreation were one and the same, you couldnt seperate the two
<hr></blockquote>

Wrong.

Lots daughters for a start. No mention they were married to their father ;)

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by WOLFGIR:
Not even Jesus is without sin. There you have respect for other people guys!<hr></blockquote>

Wolfgir, if you're talking about what the Bible says about Jesus, it says he was without sin. That's the whole point of his death, as Cerek so kindly pointed out.

The stoning scenario is a beautiful example of Gods grace and mercy. Without sin, he was the only one who could have thrown the first stone, yet chose not to.

The main message of that is not to be judgemental of others, nor raise sexual sin higher than any other sin.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tarox:
Wiccan? wtf is that and when did that get invented haha
(Kinda noticed anyone saying they are a Wicca or whatever you call it is a Yank too.......coincidence? [img]tongue.gif[/img] )<hr></blockquote>

You said this in another thread and were proved wrong. What on earth is the point of making the exact same statement in a seperate thread, knowing that the same people are going to read this thread and give you the exact same answer?

How many threads are you going to make this statement in?

I will ask you kindly to give it a rest mate.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Larry_OHF:
<font color=skyblue>
That book is more than words. Alot of people feel that those words written there were inspired by people who spoke with a higher being. If any mistakes are contained within, it is due to the retranslation from many languages and our own errors in writing.
Even the ones that do not beleive in Divinity admit that good things are taught therein. One of the things taught from taht book is that a man shall leave his mother and father and cleave unto his wife, that they may be one flesh. That one flesh part is to be united in marriage. Thus the way of speaking, Mr. and Mrs. Larry Woodruff is common to be heard.

Whether religious, not religious, or anti-religious...think about how special it would be to a woman to know that her husband had never been with another woman. She would then not have the question in her mind..."I wonder if his previous girlfriend was better in bed than I..., or other things. I am sure I got a chuckle out of you on that remark...but think on it. To know that my wife Karen has never had intimate relations with any other man makes me feel ...better when I am with her. If she had been with another before me...well, I could not love her the same way. I mean...to know that another had held her passionately before I did would feel kinda ...icky...or something. I cannot explain the feeling, but some of you will understand, and some of you will shake your head at reading this and say that I am wrong. Well fine. I am wrong, only in our opinion. to others, I have voiced their own fears. Some men and women out in the world would never marry a man that had not saved himself, and I would not knowingly marry a woman that had been touched before.
Yet, if you are not the marrying sort...meaning if you do not want to be with the same, wonderful woman for ever...then this post means little to nothing to you.
Now, are you doing wrong by running around, sampling the girls, but never committing to marriage?
Religious answer=Yes, because man and woman were meant to be together, unified as one family for God's plan. The law of the land believes this, as you have to get a blasted marriage liscense just to be legally bound to one another.
Un-religious, social answer:How many men go around screwing whatever girl, spreading disease and getting women pregnant so that they have to pay child support for the next 18 years? How many examples of this can you count? I can name 3 people close to me right now that are dealing with one or both of those afore mentioned troubles. I could name many more if given half a minute to think on it. I bet everyone in the U.S. right now reading this can name one man that you know of that has to pay child support.
Wouldn't our lives be better (just a little) without this, as well as everything else we deal with? Abortion clinics were fashined for idiots like this...that screwed before thinking. </font><hr></blockquote>

Great post Larry. Have a read of mine. Though we took different paths, we agreed that the same path was the best. You are 100% correct in my book. Kudos to you bro.

Just to clear up a general point:

People love to go on about how the Bible contradicts itself all over the place and a favourite example is "eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek".
This is easily and simply explained. The old Testament is superceded by the New Testament and where they disagree, the New T. is valid...therefore in the above example, people who quote "eye for an eye" are quoting an effectively obsolete quote. There's no point arguing I'm just stating facts.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Vaskez:
Just to clear up a general point:

People love to go on about how the Bible contradicts itself all over the place and a favourite example is "eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek".
This is easily and simply explained. The old Testament is superceded by the New Testament and where they disagree, the New T. is valid...therefore in the above example, people who quote "eye for an eye" are quoting an effectively obsolete quote. There's no point arguing I'm just stating facts.<hr></blockquote>

I agree.

"An eye for an eye" is talking to a nation about administering criminal justice, and "turn the other cheek" is talking to individuals about breaking the cycle of hate, war and enimnity.

"An Eye for an Eye" is Old Testament Law
"Turn the other cheek" is New Testament Grace.

It can seem that grace contradicts law at times. But Jesus said he came not to break the law, but to fulfil it. That is, the Law still exists, but Christians are removed from it's effects through Christ's Grace.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by WOLFGIR:

Oki, well in your view (not a degrading thing, this is from pure interest, does the event spoke of when Jesus tells the people that he who is without sin should cast the first stone?

In my view as only "reading" the bible, I felt like Jesus either showed alot of mercy or that he to had done some sins, but that as long as you did the right thing and forgave people and asked for forgiveness to both god and the one you had commited the sin against their was a solution..

And no Cerek, it is not an important part of my view, but since you posted about it I became interested in learning more from your point of view and I hope (paranoia posting) that I haven´t been offending or anything, I question because I am curious, and I have always found your posts very accurate and also with good information. So if you would like to tell me more, please do, either here or by mail!

Cheers!<hr></blockquote>

No offense taken whatsoever, Wolfgir. As I said, I had the same misconception myself for several years (although it was over a different event - more on that later)

It's always a pleasure to discuss Christianity with someone who is interested or just curious.

Yorick gave a good explanation of the event you described, but you had already figured out one of the most important points on your own - Jesus did indeed "show a lot of mercy". That's the physical embodiement of God's love for us, even when we sin against Him.

Before I go any further, I think we should move this discussion to the <font color="cyan">"Religion II"</font> thread, since it no longer pertains to Lavindathars' original question...and he DID request us to stay on topic. So, I will move your remarks and my Reply and continue our discussion there.

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]</p>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lavindathar:
<font color="cyan">Ok, but could someone who knows the text give me their best statement that they can?

Soz for being a nag, but I don't want to go into this religious stuff myself. Just an answer!! ;) </font><hr></blockquote> If you read the Bible go to Hebrews (13;4)....New testament. You will find your answer there... [img]smile.gif[/img]

Cerek, Yorrick. Thanks.

This is just something I have well been thinking on lately, but I move my butt over to the religion II thread! Cheers! :D