Being young doesnt seem so easy these days,sigh

You hit a good point LoA. Kids are forced/need to grow up far too young these days to deal with the difficulties of modern society. That is another socialogical issue that is tied in with this whole thread unfortunately. Seems the innocence of the young is fast disappearing.

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One love, peace.

Hey Guys,

I guess I have to weight in. I was very sad when I heard about Santee. Afteall thats happened here over the last several years, you would have thought we as parents and adults would have learned a thing or too. Every one of us has a responsiblity as an adult to raise ALL of our children. Not just your on. What made this especially difficult for me was the fact that this kid had told an adult that he was thinking about doing this. At that moment that adult should have stopped everything he was doing and sought some kind of help! Instead he told that kid "if I caught you taking a gun to school I'll have you put in jail". I heard that man say that on TV last night. I believe it was the mothers boyfriend. Why could he not have gone to the school with the kid and found out what the problem was and a solution. We cannot ignore our children. We cannot just tell them "don't do this cause you will get in trouble" and assume that that will stop everything. Kids have to be raised 24/7.

I also tend to agree with Draconia on the gun thing. Even if we were to ban all guns in this county (would start a civil war), they would never get them all. Then the only people that would have guns are the criminals. That's kind of an old cligue (or however you spell it), but it's true if you think about it. IF the law abiding citizens turn their guns in and the criminals don't; who has the power?

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Sir Taliesin

Ten Rings there are, and nine gold torcs on the battlechiefs of old...

I have a possible soultion to banning the gun, don't ban bullets. Besides even if banning guns worked people would use other things, like swords, their fairly easy to get over here, Hell I've got one.

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http://www.angelfire.com/yt2/gabe/images/Angle.gif
Co-president of the Club of Broken Hearts

Sword would be better for a couple of reasons
1. You really can't hide it
2. If your fast you have a better chance
3. You can't get them through Metal Detectors
At least there is a slim chance.

Not to lessen the severity of the question, just a little humor. This is a serious issue.

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Feel My Power

[This message has been edited by Gray Mage (edited 03-06-2001).]

ban gun is not the issue man, as i said, gun just happens to play a conveniant tool here.
even if you want to ban the gun, look at those bastards who work in the government... you think they are going to ban this MUTIMILLIONIA industry? this is like tens percent of US GDP... they only worry about macroecnomics growth, and dont really give a f*** about people spiritual states.

Grey mage, your wrong there a madmen took a samuri sword to an MP over here a few months back, killed the MPs best friend and nearly the MP.


250, I'm know they won't ban the gun but a soul can dream can't it.

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http://www.angelfire.com/yt2/gabe/images/Angle.gif
Co-president of the Club of Broken Hearts

Amen, LoA, amen

Charlie, I do agree with you about the availability issue. I am appalled to hear news stories of kids in my own town found standing at bus stops with loaded guns in their possesion. They got them from their drug-dealer parent. Just walked in and picked the damn things up off a table where they lay around waiting for disaster to strike.

I have a friend in NZ who has these 'discussions' about banning guns with others on my list. They end in bad blood and usually mean the participants have to take a break to cool off and start over. So this topic makes me uneasy. But here goes.

I honestly wish this country could or would do what hers, yours and so many others do- not only ban them but ENFORCE the ban. But we have issues with that too. We are a huge monstrosity of a country and when it comes to making hard and fast rules, we play POLITICALLY CORRECT too often. All the pros and cons go round and round and nothing is done. Money and politicians get together and things bog down.

I close by saying that my dad's family has always used guns for sport- deer hunting mostly but my dad is the only one who stopped doing it when he joined the AF at 18. He never went again, didn't care for it. He did two stints in Vietnam and saw horrors I can't begin to truly imagine and he came back admantly opposed to guns in the house. I just naturally assumed that nobody kept a gun in their house for most of my youth. But, the sad fact is, they do for whatever reasons. And many of them are criminal. As some others have mentioned above, we don't even enforce the laws we HAVE on the books in this country. I sometimes think that's the biggest contributor to the trouble we face now.

We Americans are at a point where the violence doesn't seem to phase us as it used to or should. We see it every day in real life and in entertainment -television, movies, games etc. We're bombarded with it day in and day out - media news IS mostly bad and the hottest box office sellers usually involve a lot of gore and explosions. We are saturated with it and kids take it as part and parcel of life. That bothers me more than anything else. To take life for granted- to think that life , yours or someone elses is not worth the time it takes to snuff it out....I find that the most painful "truth" of our society.


Cloudy

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http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memn...y/tornado1.gif Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight

Yorick--
I totally agree with you on the media issue. It is an unfortunate reality in this country (and probably all countries) that negative (evil) stories sell. I have long since stopped watching the local news b/c of it's biased nature to report only negative or 'heart-wrenching' news stories. The media should be there to report on events, tell the truth of the events, and relate both sides of the event.....however, it always turns into a one-sided, opinionated dialogue from the reporter. It comes down to playing to people's emotions. It is a common statistical practice to not accept data that is "tainted" by emotion. If you have say, a call in poll on a hot issue you are only going to get reponses from people who have strong (either for or against) opinions on the issue....you will rarely get a response out of someone that really doesn't care......the media have latched onto this......they try to report every story so that it provokes those with strong emotions towards the issue.....if they just give the facts w/out the opinions they will take that "middle don't care" ground and will not be able to 'sell' their story.
There are other responses I would like to make...but I will make them in a later post http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif

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I am a pretty small woman and I could be beaten quite easily, but I will NEVER buy a gun.
I think of what would happen if a big guy attacked me and took the gun from me ... SO MUCH worse than without the f*** gun ...
I think of what would happen if he didn't take the gun and I would shoot and kill him ... how could I live with the never ending guilt in my head 'I have killed a man, I have killed a man' ...
And I think of what would happen if my son found the gun ...

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Moiraine,

I think pretty much as you do when it comes to owning or using one, myself. I try to be open minded about a lot of things, but guns scare the cr*p out of me.

CB


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http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memn...y/tornado1.gif Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight

I live in Chino Hills CA, said to be in the top 10 safest cities in the U.S. Last week, not five minuites from my house at a local high school, some kids set off two pipe bombs. Luckily no one was injured, but what the hell is going on. You like to think that you go to work everyday and you are safe, but you never know when some psychopath will do something that might effect you.

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Tremble and despair, for I am power! All here are now judged, and are found wanting.

Actually anything can be a weapon. What was it, two weeks ago, when that madman in California ran through that crowd of people with a car at sixty miles an hour, killing four and injuring several more. One cannot protect ones self from crazy people.

One thng that should scare the crap out of everyone here is some idiot drunk behind the wheel! Unfortuately, I'm guessing, most of us have been there and done that. I know I've been guilty of that.

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Sir Taliesin

Ten Rings there are, and nine gold torcs on the battlechiefs of old...

That madman in california that ran through the people with the car happened in Fullerton, within rock throwing distance of my ex-girlfriends apartment on frat row. What is going on in this state?

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Tremble and despair, for I am power! All here are now judged, and are found wanting.

So many good points here! Such an interesting discussion! http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif

Guns will not be banned in the U.S. The issue is too emotional on both sides. I personally hate guns, have never owned a gun, do not have guns in my house, and never intend to. None of my family - parents, husband - have ever had guns in their homes. If you're afraid, get a big dog. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...miles/wink.gif But, owning guns is a 'right' written into our sacred constitution and so I don't ever see them being banned. Politicians bring out the gun control issue when they want to distract voters from the real issues.

I still think we're missing the big issue. In my humble opinion, the basic issue underlying all of this is that we have to figure out how, as a society, to deal effectively with violence, disrespect and cruelty to fellow human beings. Violence is growing. Our population is at record heights and so we see more of this kind of thing on the news not only because Yorick & Moridin are right - bad news sells big - but because with more people in the world, there are more people to do crazy sh*t.

The attitudes of "Kids will be kids" or "boys will be boys" or "what else can you expect" from children raised by a single/neglectful/abusive/working parent or in a ghetto or whatever the excuse is this week, these attitudes need to be addressed & CHANGED. These attitudes are excuses for everyone to hide their heads in the sand. "Oh,yes, it's sad, but I can't do anything about that because kids will be kids/or if only parents would do their jobs or .... " What is ignored is that the bullies in schools are often the most popular kids! The kids that come from supposedly 'good' families, and who are very successful socially in school - cheerleaders, School sports stars, etc. Humans need to stop trying to make themselves feel better about themselves by behaving like baboons to others.

What can we do to address this? If every child & person in every country could learn to care about their fellow humans just because they are human, despite differences, wouldn't violence stop? It's a tremendously huge task, but we have to start somewhere. At home, but also at school. Going after media, or guns, or abortion or whatever your issue is doesn't address what really needs to be done. Communities can work together to learn to resolve conflicts, and to teach our children to do the same.

I'm an idealist. And I do tend to get on my soapbox now and then! Feel free to disagree with me. That's your right after all! http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif

I'll shut up now. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...s/11zteeth.gif

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http://www.paulbunyan.net/mnssc/redcelticdragon2.gif
Having abandoned my search for truth, I am now looking for a good Fantasy.

Bilqis, Parents blame the schools, the schools blame the parents and I personally think society at large is to blame. We tolerate far more than we should, in my opinon. (let the flames begin..I got my asbestos +3 shield ready LOL )

My friend who just put her teenager into Catholic school substitute teaches in the local schools (lower grades up to HS) and in the middle and high schools she gets verbally abused on a daily basis. On one occasion she was physically assaulted and on another she was threatened with bodily harm. In the last case, the high school principal called the father of the student who made threats in for a talk with him and my friend. The father was outrageously verbally abusive, threatened physical harm to both of them and accused the teacher of beating up his son! His son is a hulking bully and my friend just stood there and laughed. The principal gave the father a warning and the kid got off without a penalty!

CB

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http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memn...y/tornado1.gif Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight

Personally I think society is to blame for poisoning kids minds with propaganda and forcing stupid opinions on kids like the whole fat/thin models and even in film and cartoons people who aren't layabouts and actually try to achieve something at school are looked upon as being strange or weird and should therefore be subjected to ridicule from the funny/sporty factions of the school system, now I belive that the reason these people go off like they do is because they cant see any sense in what they do as they are bought up(by their parents i would think)to do whats right and be law abiding citizens and they are picked on and alienated for doing as they are told while the press and entertainment industry make the people who pick on the aforementioned to be some kind of role models I think they should look at what they are doing more seriously.
Just my 2 penneth. Rikki.

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IGNORANCE IS BLISS

Bilqis that was a really good point. Up until now we have always treated the symtom and ignored the real problem. The million dollar question probalby is "What is the problem" or better yet "how did it get this bad".

How come children feel that they must pick up a gun to get attention? Because I believe that is really what the issue is. These kids are not getting the proper attention either at home or at school or even society in general.

What changed in our society in the last thirty years? Some say guns are a problem, but thirty years ago, percentage wise, we had more guns in society than we do now. It was much easier to get a firearm then, than it is now. We didn't have these kinds of problems then. So what's different?


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Sir Taliesin

Ten Rings there are, and nine gold torcs on the battlechiefs of old...

heres the hitch i believe...

as draconia said, banning guns wont do sh*t. it rather the society that must change. just like with suicide. there is nothing wrong with the person who did it, rather the SOCIETY he live in.

if we had this society on which we all felt loved and stuff, would we ever think that killing will make us cool right?

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Tifa has her Cloud, Squall his Rinoa, Sephiroth?? hehe