<font color="white">Well said, Magik [img]smile.gif[/img]

Apparently, Marvel has a thing for "cosmic" forces. If I remember correctly, the members of the Fantastic Four were imbued with cosmic rays which gave rise to their powers. Its as if they've run out of ways to imbue/create superheroes. Some examples being Spiderman(radioactive spider bite), Hulk(Gamma radiation), Flash(lab experiment gone wrong)...etc...etc...

At least with the X-Men, they don't have to stress their grey matter too much. With some exceptions, most if not all X-men(villians included) got their abilities through gene mutation. End of Story. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Dont' get me wrong, I'm not complaining. Comic books have fueled the imagination of my generation with pseudo-science and what nots.

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quite interesting that you use the fantastic four as an example of "running out of ideas" when they were Stan Lee's first big superheroes (he worked on the human torch and captain america in the forties, and revived them when he started making his own teams and not just working on whaever was hot at the time)

as magik said, many of the mutants began as children or teens, Jubilee, Kitty Pryde, (the entire cast of Generation X) etc etc.

<font color="white">Moreguat, you've misunderstood my statement. Or perhaps, the fault lies with my choice of words and lack of detail. If so, I apologize. What I meant was that there are many Superhero characters whose powers were borne out of "cosmic" energy/force. The Fantastic Four being one of the first if not the first Superhero team imbued with "cosmic" powers. I implied that Magik's list of characters, subsequent to F4, had the similar "cosmic"(in various forms and guises)catalyst for their powers/abilities.

With regards to teenaged comicbook characters, I definitely have no "beef" with that. The thing that bugs me is the idea of re-inventing established adult characters into teenagers. Thus, throwing the timeline that we've all been acustomed to out of sync and rendered completely null and void. I'd understand if they chose to do a form of "prequel" story arch. For example in "Wolverine #25 " where they featured a juvenile Wolvie living in the wild or in "Wolverine #9 and #10" featuring Wolvie in his late teens(or at least as a young adult). This was all before Wolvie was involved with the X-Men or even Alpha Flight for the matter.

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[ 05-15-2003, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Finn ]

<font color = lightgreen>I'm afraid I must disagree with you here, MagiK. Nova was Frankie Ray, who had powers similar to Johnny Storm (the Human Torch). In fact, they were dating when Galactus came back to Earth and was so weak he was going to "have lunch". He wanted a herald and she volunteered because she wanted to travel through the universe, thus he turned her into Nova. She later became involved with the Silver Surfer but eventually died (I think).

What is not discussed often is that those who gained their powers through some sort of accident (like the Fantastic Four) have an induced mutation and are thus mutants; the X-Men are natural mutants.</font>

Who's Ilyana? [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Piotr Rasputin's sister, the character MagiK based his Ironworks-username on. ;) </font>[/QUOTE]What can she do? [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not sure if this is correct but there is a soviet mutant known as Darkstar who appeared in one of the X-men cartoons featuring Collossus and Omega Red who was portrayed as his sister(may be wrong here as it was a long time ago).

She has the mutant ability to summon the darkforce, an extradimensional energy of pure darkness. She can manipulate it for various effects, including flight, teleportation of herself and others, as smokescreen, energy blasts, and for creating simple semi-solid objects.

I'm not sure if she is his sister in the actual comics though, this may have just been a twist unique to the cartoon.

I'm not sure if this is correct but there is a soviet mutant known as Darkstar who appeared in one of the X-men cartoons featuring Collossus and Omega Red who was portrayed as his sister(may be wrong here as it was a long time ago).

She has the mutant ability to summon the darkforce, an extradimensional energy of pure darkness. She can manipulate it for various effects, including flight, teleportation of herself and others, as smokescreen, energy blasts, and for creating simple semi-solid objects.

I'm not sure if she is his sister in the actual comics though, this may have just been a twist unique to the cartoon.

Flash is a DC comics character. In terms of overall percentage I don't think that many of their characters have got powers in this way, It just happens that some of the most popular ones have. This is probably because it's easier to write for characters that are essentially human, thus easier to identify with, than it is for aliens or mutants who take a bit more thought to make believable(then again, how believable a Giant green Jekyll/Hyde person or a plastic man is I don't know [img]smile.gif[/img] )

<font color="white">Whoa, thanks for correcting that little boo boo I made. [img]smile.gif[/img]

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She was not Colossus's sister. She was part of a three-person soviet team, and one of the other two members was her brother (forget the name, but used a hammer and a sickle as weapons). The third member was Ursus Major, a guy who could shapechange into bear or bear-humanoid form.

A little-known fact (or at least I don't know many other people who are aware of it) is that mutants came about due to the intervention of the Celestials. During one of their visits to pre-historic earth they altered humanity's genetic code to allow for the possibility of genetic mutations when the conditions were right.
So, Finn, I guess that makes mutants "cosmic powered", too. ;)

<font color="#f683ad"> Hey! I remember that! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Hmmmm Need to reresearch my Carrol Danvers data.. Guess I f'd up on her ending up a herald of Galactus....</font>

<font color = lightgreen>I'm afraid I must disagree with you here, MagiK. Nova was Frankie Ray, who had powers similar to Johnny Storm (the Human Torch). In fact, they were dating when Galactus came back to Earth and was so weak he was going to "have lunch". He wanted a herald and she volunteered because she wanted to travel through the universe, thus he turned her into Nova. She later became involved with the Silver Surfer but eventually died (I think).

What is not discussed often is that those who gained their powers through some sort of accident (like the Fantastic Four) have an induced mutation and are thus mutants; the X-Men are natural mutants.</font> </font>[/QUOTE]<font color="#f683ad"> Ok She didn't become a Herald for Galactus, but she became Binary not Nova....My bad. [img]smile.gif[/img] thanks for keeping me honest ;)
and she was powerd by a White hole not "The Power Cosmic" </font>

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Port...1/mainpage.htm

[ 05-20-2003, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

<font color=deepskyblue>You also have to keep that all of these characters (except for the Flash) were created by Stan Lee back in the 50's and 60's. It was the height of the Cold War and the dropping of the first two atomic bombs was still "recent history" at that time.

Radiation (and it's "unknown" effects) was the most prevelant fear of most Americans (if not the world) during this time. So it makes sense that Stan Lee would use this "unknown" phenomena as the catalyst for the emergence of super-powers in otherwise normal humans. Nobody knew what types of mutations could be caused by radiation at that time, but fearful speculation created some outrageous scenarios.

Watch any B-Horror movies from that time, or episodes of the original Twilight Zone. You'll find that "radiation poisoning/mutation" etc was the primary cause in several of the storylines.</font>

<font color="#f683ad">Cerek, Don't forget Godzilla [img]smile.gif[/img] ohhh man there were so so many raidation induced B-movies [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

<font color="cyan">Thank you Arnabas and Cerek for broadening my view on this subject matter. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font color>

<font color="white">Yes, its very true that comic books reflect the socio-political, science and technological climate of their particular era. Just take the new Spiderman movie for example, they've updated the "origins" of Spidey's power from a "radioactive spider bite" to a "genetically altered spider bite".

I'm looking forward to watch the Incredible Hulk movie which will be out sometime soon(I hope). Apparently, from the trailer, I got the impression that it wasn't the Gamma Ray that turned Bruce into the Hulk, somehow, the "Hulk" persona/power was already innate in him and the gamma radiation incident served as some form of trigger/catalyst. Well, its still too early to speculate and most likely I'm reading things between the lines that aren't even there in the first place. :D </font color>

Just to add to teh list of things on the computer screen.

The sentinel project name (hehehehe)
Frankilin Richards (Fantastic Four, the child of some of them.)

I think it might have been Franklin Richards watching the TV. OR Harry Potter.

<font color="white">Thanks Niadh. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Yea, that kid sure did look a whole lot like Harry Potter. [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img]

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:D
My friends said something like that too.

Never knew there was so much about X-men I didn't know. Then again, I only watched the cartoon, and that was when I was young... They don't broadcast it here anymore, not right now.. :(

And I definitely have to go see X-2 again!!! Great movie, and I'm sure I missed half of it! ;)

<font color=deepskyblue>Actually <font color=white>Finn</font>, you've hit the proverbial nail on the head. Bruce Banner has always "repressed" his anger and tried to keep his emotions under control. I think Stan Lee originally pictured him as a "geeky scientist" that always had to be in control. Any negative emotions (like anger) were "bottled up" and buried. Later - as the storyline evolved - we learned that Bruce Banner's had been physically abused by his father. When his father was angry, he turned into a "monster" - so Bruce never wanted to lose control like that.

Well, of course, you can't bottle your emotions up forever....or they will eventually explode! And that's what the gamma radiation did...it created the catalyst that broke throught the barriers Banner had put up to hold his anger in check. The Hulk is the living embodiement of all the anger Banner has kept inside all his life. That's why he only turns into the Hulk when he gets mad and why he returns to "normal" when he calms down. It is also one of the reasons that Hulk HATES his weaker "alter ego". "Puny Banner" refers to more than just the loss of Hulk's unlimited physical strength..it also refers to the loss of emotional strength. Bruce Banner lets people push him around...<font color=lime>NOBODY PUSHES THE HULK AROUND!</font>

From what I've read, the movie is going to explore this relationship between the alter-ego's very thoroughly and there was a hint that there is much more to Hulk's hatred of Banner than even the comic readers are aware of....I'm looking forward to that.</font>

<font color="cyan">Wow, Cerek...Thanks for the insight. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font color>

<font color="white">I guess in a way, the "HULK" character appeals to most of its comic book readers because people(at one point in time or other) harbour this secret longing to "let loose" so to speak. We'd get to vicariously experience the Hulk's rampage when he finally stands up to his oppressors. [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img]

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I recall a character from the New Mutants named Cypher. I believe that could be the young, insomniac boy who was changing channels as he blinked. He did indeed speak in the movie. He told Wolverine "I don't sleep" and the said "Hi" to the invading troppers. Before being shot in the throat with the tranq darts. Cypher was the son of Magnus, I believe. It's been a long time since I read any of those, so I can't be sure without going to look in my Marvel Universe Books. They list all of the characters in all the comics up to the time they were printed. I just don't feel like digging them out of the comic box.

[ 05-30-2003, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: Wulfere ]

No, it couldn't have been him. His only power in the comic was to understand languages instantly. Unless they REALLY changed the character.

Most likely I a thinking of the wrong name. He was a character who could manipulate electronics and mimic electronic items or something like that. They always drew him as half-human half-machine-like, sort of a picasso style. Very strange looking. Anyone know who I am talking about? I might have to drag those old comics out and look now.

<font color="cyan">Wulfre, could you be refering to "Warlock" of the New Mutants? He's a techno organic alien from The Magus world. He is the one drawn "Picasso style" in the comic books. If I remember correctly, his special ability was shapeshifting.</font color>

<font color="white">If this is indeed the case, then I doubt "Warlock" is the insomniac kid featured in the movie. The other kid whom we were speculating about was the one Wolverine carried towards the end of the movie and the one who sticks out his tongue at the human girl in the museum scene. This is the kid who didn't speak(IIRC). [img]smile.gif[/img] </font color>

You are exactly right Finn. That is the New Mutant I was thinking of. But, it's been soo long since I read any of those comics I had some of my facts messed up.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I have only seen X2 once, but I thought Wolverine carried the TV boy out since he was unconscious on the floor. Wasn't he the kid that Wolverine handed over to Colossus? Who said "I can help you." and Wolverine replied. "Help Them." and gestured at the other kids. Then Colossus ducks under the doorway and the sliding door closes?

D'OH! I just re-read your last post. I ave no idea who Artie is...though the name is very familiar sounding and I feel I should know. Maybe if I didn't have a brain with holes eaten in it from the festering crap hole I work in I could remember.

[ 06-04-2003, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: Wulfere ]

<font color="white">Yes, the boy Wolvie carried and handed over to Colossus was the insomniac-tv kid but the kid Wolvie carried towards the end of the movie(when he saw Stryker for the last time right before he boarded the Jet plane) was the same kid in the museum because the kid stuck his tongue out at Stryker too. :D

Wulfere, for more info about Artie Maddicks, check out this link. [img]smile.gif[/img]

http://www.users.xeroanime.com/~handbook/jklm/leech.htm

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[ 06-05-2003, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Finn ]

Cypher was a mutant who could instantly understand and speak any language. He was the only one (initially) who could communicate with Warlock, the techno-organic alien. They became best friends. Cypher (Doug something-or-other) was killed saving the life of Wolfsbane (Rahne Sinclaire). Watrlock went a bit wonky at that and merged with Doug's dead body, reviving him in a way and the two became the character "Douglock". I can't recall how that particular storyline ended...

I was talking to some friends in Omaha this weekend about Artie. They believe that he was origionally a Morlock. His only power was Dampening other mutants powers. In other words when they got within such and such distance their powers quit working. Then the Morlocks closed in and beat them with pipes and other ejecta of civilization.

Could this be correct? They seemed pretty adamant about it.

<font color="white">YES, they're right. Artie was indeed an ex-Morlock. If I'm not mistaken, it was in fact Leech(Artie's best bud), whom had the ability to negate the powers/abilities of other mutants.

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Woohoo. Yeah I remember Leech now. But, I still don't remember about Artie or what he could do if anything. I don't even know if I have any of those old comics around here. I sold off alot of them a dozen years ago. The whole start the X-Men over thing really ticked me off. Especially when you ended up having to buy 25 to 30 comics a month just to stay with the story lines. It just got too expensive.
By the way all but 2 of the Comic stores in Lincoln have gone out of business
in the last 5 years.

<font color="white">Same here. I too stopped reading comic books ages ago. Plus, my mom threw out my old comic book stash while I was away in college. They had basically no re-sale value left anyway...All dog-eared, with missing and yellowed pages/covers...Pretty beat up already, I guess. :(

I still occasionally walk past and browse at my local comic store display just to see whats new these days. Now, I mostly read graphic novels. At least the stories all start and end in the same book. [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img]

Regarding Artie, his mutant power is the mental ability to conjure visual images. Kinda like mid-air holograms. This is his only means of communication with other people as he is mute. Try the link again for further details if you haven't already done so. [img]smile.gif[/img]

http://www.users.xeroanime.com/~handbook/jklm/leech.htm

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Saw the preview for the Hulk today, it looks like Banner's father did something chemicaly to him when he was young. And the Hulk is bigger than I thought (tank sized green monster).

In the movie, from what I hear, Hulk is about 13 feet tall. That's a bit of an exaggeration. IIRC, in the comic he was 9 feet tall.
Either way, he's freaking big.