No, they made a great storyline, only the PRODUCERS cut the funds. No gamemaking with no funds aye, that's hardly Obsidian's fault.

Besides, the beauty of what the game was going to be is there. The whole mystery about kreia, the moral dilemma with the mandalorian wars, the problem of that Jedi woman (what's her name, something with an A), the depth of your teammates, and above all, the sheer amount of skill usage in dialogs and such.

[ 09-14-2006, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: JrKASperov ]

I understand that you have deep reservations about this coming game Z but would it be possible to have a dedicated forum ready to go from the first day of sale. This is a fantastic opportunity for IW to become the best 'independent' source of information, tips and discussion on the net just like it was with BG2.

Anybody else like to see a new forum dedicated to NWN2 right from the go?

I'd be pissing my pants in excitement if I was wearing any.

<font color=skyblue>Maybe all this negative talk will help the marketing crew realize that they will not get away with asking a premium cost and the game will be sold at a more reasonable price...

Is that thinking positive enough, Memnoch? :D </font>

Well.... it's been pushed back again. I just got my pre shipping notice that it is not going to be delivered on 10/17 but it is now on 10/31.

[ 09-20-2006, 12:48 AM: Message edited by: toot033 ]

You are absolutely correct. It's supposed to be a sequel to Neverwinter Nights, and I'm not thinking that expecting it to have at least the base stuff that was included in the original is asking all that much. It's hard to be a sequel to something, if it's less that what was originally released.

In support of this, was BG 2 somehow less than BG? Did Throne of Bhaal take away from either? Maybe ToB isn't fair to add, since it was basically like TotSC, and an add on, but the point is still valid. The DM Client, and online multiplayer were the main drives behind Neverwinter Nights, with the exception of Hordes. I've been following this pretty close, and while they may be close to ironing out the problems, it's supposed to go Gold in a week? They will no longer have funding for support? You're correct. I believe that it's going to be substantially less than what it could be, and less than what Neverwinter Nights has become. </font>[/QUOTE]QFT!!!!!!!!!!

NWN1 had nearly EVERY color Dragon at launch. NWN2 has 2 dragons total. LOL That is lame as hell....

Something like 30-40 monsters. NWN1 had 60-70. (And a DM client).


SAD is the word of the day. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Dan, you're not too enthusiastic about things, are you. :D </font>[/QUOTE][img]smile.gif[/img] Just mad because of what NWN2 could have been. I have seen so many warning signs and red flags during development, its scary. And from past history, those flags equal very bad games.

I really just wish Bioware developed NWN2. You would have seen something much better. :(

I do hope it's awesome, but read the reviews before purchase. (And not gaming magazines--they are scared into rating some games well because they fear that company will pull their advertising). So look for reviews online.

I don't care how much you dislike the game.

I don't care how much the game is probably going to suck.


That is complete BS. You know it. I know it. There is not a PC game ON THIS PLANET whose models are that fugly. </font>[/QUOTE]I didn't ask you to care.. :D
The models in NWN2 look poor. check the screenshots dude. The eyes on them are cross-eyed in many shots. I would be embarrassed to release a screenshot that looked like that.

JUST my opinion. ;)

[ 09-20-2006, 03:16 AM: Message edited by: Ziroc ]

If the reviews coming out look atleast 'average' I'll do a NWN2 forum, but if I see 90% 'it's crap' posts and stuff, I dunno. We'll see.

I may. I mean, it does have the NWN name... [img]smile.gif[/img]

Don't get me wrong here, I pray to the gaming gods that NWN2 is bad ass, and is awesome. I REALLY do, but I've been in the industry, watching development of games for many, many years, and the signs are everywhere that things look bad for NWN2.

I hope Atari doesn't cut funds after release. If this happens, expect no patches, no new content, and the editor will not allow custom 3D models and such without the release of the 3DS Max plugins. If that happens, NWN will be locked into just the toolset.

BTW: I *DO* think the toolset looks awesome, but the options are limited with less monsters. But the outdoor land creation is cool--like the editor in Unreal. LOVE THAT! [img]smile.gif[/img]

I haven't been actively involved in too many games, per se, but I have watched a lot of games fail, some with better reviews. I remain openly pessimistic, but hopeful.

The graphics does look like a poor's man version of Oblivion.

And OB wasn't too great... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Is it going to be one of those "same sh!t, different title" type of games?

Sorry Luvian, but I don't agree. The graphics in Oblivion are okay at best, but NWN2 is MUCH better imho. just my 2 cents.

I have to agree with Micah Foehammer here. I think the graphics looks alot better in NWN2 than oblivion. Maybe the graphics aren't better technically but the feel NWN2 gives is just nicer. And to Variol Elmwood, i think it isnt going to be one of those "same sh!t, different title" games. NWN2 looks like it could become the absolute best 3D rpg ever. I haven't really played a 3D rpg that has in my own opinion come close to old titles as Planescape: Torment or BG but this seems to be the game to finally get me hooked on a rpg thats not 2d.

I don't know... I guess you guys haven't played Oblivion with maxed out settings. You need a really powerfull computer to get the most out of Oblivion. I'm not really a fan of Oblivion's graphics, but there is no doubt to me comparing them that NWN 2 is a poorer version graphic wise.

But as for NWN2 being the best rpg... The only thing they have over NWN 1 is updated graphics, and they removed a bunch of features from the first one. Wouldn't that make NWN 1 the best rpg?

[ 09-26-2006, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

lol and you haven't played NWN2 with maxed out settings either.

Alright, so I went to both websites and used their own screenshots to make comparisons. It wasn't always easy to see similar screenshots for each games, but I found a couple:

NWN2's Combat
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7...ormdkp8.th.jpg

Oblivion's combat

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3...v25byr7.th.jpg

NWN2's Cave
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/950...rnmdrs9.th.jpg

Oblivion's Cave

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8...v23bgr3.th.jpg

NWN2's Big Monster in a dungeon

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8...uymdai9.th.png

Oblivion's Big monster in a dungeon

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/3...v16bif9.th.jpg

NWN2's Single Hut

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/6...utmdlm0.th.png

Oblivion's Single Hut

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/7...v07bdy5.th.jpg

I took more but you can only have 8 images per posts. This should be enough anyway.

[ 09-26-2006, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

The technology in Oblivion is higher if that's what people mean? I agree, it looks simimliar to OBV and I would almost say it has more charm than Oblivion. Why is everyone freaking out if these games lok similiar btw?

I didn't see anyone freaking out about the game looking similar.

<font color=skyblue>Great work on the side-by-side comparisons, Luvian. Thanks.</font>

Bah, personally I think comparing third person graphics with first person is a little bit 'apples and oranges'. Not that graphics bear very much weight in my game considerations anyway....

Perhaps I should rephrase. Why is it an issue if they do or not? You said they do and I agree they do but then people are responding saying they aren't almost like it's a bad thing. Isn't it good if the graphics are nice? Or is it that people don't like the OBV graphics and wouldn't like these on NWN's? I am asking, is all.

[ 09-27-2006, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: SpiritWarrior ]

Ok im shocked.. there is no shifter class in NWN 2 noooooo.....

thats just a small list.. apparently you can have 3 companions now but still shifter has always been one of my faves :(

good info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_2

At least the cap is level 20. I always thought level 40 was over the top and wasn't much in the spirit of dungeon and dragons. Sure there are rules for epic levels, but those are supposed to be rare, the greatest hero might get an epic level or two. Level 20 characters are supposed to be rare, but in NWN it seem everything is a level 40 demigod.

well lvl 40 came out with expansion of SOU and HOTU. perhaps they are going to do the same.

One thing that will be interesting though would be the choosing of your pretiege class when your limited to lvl 20

I always felt like level 20 was just the beginning. Didn't the D&D PHB have level 40 as it's max? I thought anything past 40 was considered epic as far as the old core books went. I recall the old classic D&D sets only mapping chars out to 20 though.

its really abit hard to increase the levels because experience comes with time with regular playing rulez. That is why Drizzt is not even lvl 20!!

Many who did the old Roll n Dice were happy to reach even lvl 5 after months of playing with mates.

The 2nd edition had progression up to level 20, level 20 being considered a great hero that could take on pretty much anything. Then they made a supplement book that created a system of rules for levels above 20, which I bought but never got to use, as my oldest campaign that was 2 and a half years old and we played every weekends only had players in the level 12-15 range.

Then in third edition, they added those epic rules in the base game. But they work a little differently from regular levels. Out of memory, epic levels don't give you more health, and they're not exactly called levels I think. Your sheet still said level 20 warrior for example, but then there was a second number for epic levels. Something like that.

20th level characters are supossed to be rare, these are the greatest heroes, Drizzt that in the Forgotten Realm is considered to be one of the greatest heroes was around level 12. So epic level characters are the heroes's heroes. That's the demigods realm and should be out of the reach of all but a tiny fraction of the the greatest heroes ever known to that world.

They raised the level cap in NWN because let's be honest, action rpg players really like to powergame and like big impressive numbers and kicking the crap out of everything, but that's not Dungeon and Dragons.

Yup, like in BG2, and can't say I don't agree with them.

Like Luvian said, it's not Dungeon and Dragons. Rules had to be twisted for CRPGs.

I think they handled it better in BG2 than in NWN, but that may be because NWN has more of an action game feel to it than BG2, in my opinion.

Really the 2E PHB only went up to 20? I forget, been awhile and I'm prolly too used to playing MMO's with more levels to recall correctly. I know they had epic rules and corebooks for 2E back in the day. "High Level Campaigns" or something it was called so I guess they merged it for 3E into the corebooks.

I agree about HotU though it was just like uh... Bioware sent us a survey months before asking a number of questions. Most of the questions presented themselves in some way in HotU. They maxxed out the levels and then of course gave you the option to be evil. Oh and they added a class with horns and batlike wings. Truly wasn't D&D IMHO but rather an answer to the kiddies who wanted something cool. I much preferred SoU.

ORLY? I remember a game called ToEE that had the best engine I've ever seen on a game. Too bad the rest sucked. ;)

Looking through my old books I thought the tables went to level 29 not maxed out at 20. I agree that when you hit lvl 5 - 7 it really felt like an accomplishment!
Just for fun we made up a high level characters and ATTEMPTED to do the U series ( Tomb of horror etc). It wasn't called that for nothing!!! Does any one remember the title of the High level campaign with the robot on it well not a true robot more like a golumn that you could enter) never played that one put it looked like fun.

Perhaps in IMO, when reaching a certain level is it not enough to just obtain the spells automatically, perhaps after reaching a certain experience AND level would one obtain the new skill needed.

Or what Arcanium (as i recall the game), where you need spell components. That would be cool indeed [img]smile.gif[/img] .

Of course kiddies wouldnt like it

Oooh spell components... There were some fun side quests we did added to the main quests just to get what you needed to cast some of the high level spells!!

Well, I'm in the process of downloading the tile set and the NWN 2 official web page say the official release date is now Nov. 3rd. I for one am happy that it is being pushed back again ( hopefully working out all the bugs).
Along the same lines do you have to down load all 9 set of files plus the exe. set ( all of them are pretty big ~ 250 MG each). If that is case it could take a while to down load all of them ( even with broad band).

Epic levels do add health, but they don't add AB. They do add Epic Attack Bonus, which doesn't add to attacks per round. The real treat of Epic levels, however, is the epic feats.

Drizzt is 16(with ECL 18) in 3rd ed. Elminster or Larloch is the highest level character(non demigod) in the FR, and they're lvl 35(CR 39) and about 32 IIRC. There's always some archmage thrown in the mix with those guys.

What seperates demigods from these adventurers is the divine blessing, which translates into being immortal, having special abilities (not from another source) and generally have some powers concerning your portfolio.

[ 10-05-2006, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: JrKASperov ]

Elminster is so cheezy, he shouldn't be mentioned in any serious discussion about power/levels. It's author really went overboard.

I wasn't talking about a real demigods, as in a weak god with a portfolio and all that, but of mortals with the power of weak gods.

Eh I like Elminster - especially the way he was portrayed in the Azure Bonds series. Now Drizzt, that's overexposure for ya.