Now, now, uss... [img]graemlins/madhell.gif[/img]

No need for physical threats, we all love each other here at Ironworks, we do NOT threaten to kill them for having different opinions on a game (even if it is NWN). Rather, they are souls to be pitied, since they have not yet seen the light... :D

Seriously...take a chill pill, it's just a game. If Megabot doesn't like it, then he's entitled to. I just feel bad for him wasting his money an all. ;)

I didn't say it sucked, I listed what I found problematic with a game I'm otherwise enjoying. I'm just being honest. How else do designers make games better if people aren't honest with feedback?

I'm always critiquing music. Doesn't mean I think music sucks. It's actually the contrary.

hmmm..Megabot, I thought you can return the game to the shop you bought it from and get a refund?

yeah, most stores have a certain amount of days that you can take it back for a full refund

Maby i give the game a new chance when i have played troug MRW, then i think i give NWN an new chance so because maby the game is not THAT bad if i only can come out of that stupid training thingie! Because i liked BG the first of them and here in NWN you have only one character to conrol and THAT is wery good and the grapich is WERY nice so i think i maby would like it sooner or later anyway and then i will sure come with millions of questions here on the NWN forum ! LOL [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

And sorry that i "Nuked" you USS hope you are back on the earh again! lol!

Yeah Thief it sounds like it was an maby 11 year old one who writed that line and he liked it for he thot it was fun! lol :D

And whata hell do Atari have to do with this game? Anyone who knove that? Why the Atari logo is on the gamebox?

[ 07-07-2002, 04:20 AM: Message edited by: Megabot ]

I hated NWN when I first started playing it! I am a die hard BG II fan and the dissimilarities between the two games put me off immediately. After about two hours of gaming on NWN, I really started liking it, and now I've beaten the blasted campaign and wish I had more! [img]smile.gif[/img]

WELCOME TO IRONWORKS!!!! [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]
Anybody that is "a die-hard BGII fan" is all right with me. But, like you, I like this one, too.

This game is a major disapointment to me for two reasons, which I'll get to later on.

For months I was completly excited about it's release as I read all (some) of the hype that was given on this site about the game. I even bought the $10 pre-order for the game and waited and waited and waited. Finally after spending over $60 for NWN I brought it home and installed it. Alright lets play!...WHAT?...My graphics card is not compatible?!%*?!

So I spend the rest of the day researching all the various specifications and variations that go into video cards. Finally after all that research I head back to Best Buy and buy a $100 GeForce4 MX 420 graphics card. It's not great, but it definetly blows my old 3dfx Voodoo3 card out of the park (or so I'm led to believe). Nevertheless it's compatible with NWN, YIPPPEEEE!! So the total cost now for this game so far is up near $180. OK, it's a lot of money but hey it's worth it right?? I mean this is supposed to be the three-demensional version of a Baldurs Gate-like game, but with so much more!!

So I create the typical, lawful-good, human, male, fighter (playing it safe) and start the game. The intro story seems quite interesting and different so I have no complaints there. Then the tutorial starts and it's farely boring like most games are in the begining. Ok so the fighting starts and I'm having fun. Then later I meet up with Pavel and I'm really excited now because I've got my first of MANY comrads. WHAT!!?$^%?! GET BACK HERE YOU IDIOT! WHY THE HECK ARE YOU RUNNING HEADLONG INTO THOSE MONSTERS??!! Ah, it's just the prelude/tutorial I'll figure out how to control him later.

So Paval leaves and I'm standing in the Halls of Justice waiting to get started on whats going to be weeks upon weeks of gaming heaven! I then meet Tommy Undergallows and he wants 250 gold for his services, but unfortunetly I'm short on dough, that's ok I'll pick him up later or meet someone else. I then go solo for most of chapter one and finally make it to the prison. After fighting my way down through the pits I decide to teleport back to the HoJ and get healed up. Next I go and hire little Tommy and head back to the prison.

I do a little backtracking as to have Tom lockpick the chests and cabinets that I couldn't smash open. Alrighty then, lets kick some Garrison butt and find out who's at the bottom of this prison mess! So we run into our first set of monsters and things are looking good. HEY!...HEY YOU! WHERE THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING YOU NUMBSKULL!! COME BACK HERE!! Those were my thoughts as I watched little Tommy Underwear run right up to some goons and get his butt kicked.

I couldn't beleive it, this has got to be a nightmare. So I spent the next couple of minutes trying to figure out how to control this little punk. So after awhile I gave up and teleported back again and went to the Trade of Blades as to hire another henchperson. I decided on Sharwyn. WHAT??!! WHERE THE HECK DID THAT TOMMY GUY GO TO!!??

So after reading up on NPCs/Henchmen I realized that this game was not what I expected. And so after pounding my head several times (and swearing) in disgust, I decided to go back to my trusty old Baldur's Gate I and start a new campaign. I haven't touched NWN in over a week and I'm not sure when I will again. -THE END-

First, I feel I should address this "Gypsy" issue. The word itself refers to a stereotype of nomadic people who borrow from cultures and typically are entertainers or "rogues." That Romany people may or may not be gypsies is another thing. Romany people need not say that they are "gypsies," since that's actually a different term, and definately not one given to them by themselves. Let's not say that Romany = Gypsy, because it doesn't, and therefore there's no need for anyone to get their feathers ruffled.

As far as NWN goes, I think that so far there's a bit too much combat in the included story (I felt shades of Resident Evil from time to time) and the idea of hiring henchmen seems a bit stilted to me (the old "You walk into the One-Eyed Hippogryph Bar and meet some mercenaries..."). The 3rd edition rules are a great improvement toward making more realistic and flexible characters.

The voices are a bit "cartoony." Who wants to use that "idealistic female" voice, anyway? The difference between the BG2 voices and these is like the difference between undubbed anime and dubbed anime. *shudder*

You would of had to have gotten a new graphics card eventally, that is if you play more games than just NwN. I upgraded from an ATI Rage Fury to a GeForce 3 about 6 months ago in preparation for NwN, Morrowind, Warcraft III, etc. because I knew the specs would be pretty high. Technology moves fast, it's a fact of life. Don't blame it soley on NwN.

Right-clicking or talking (left clicking) to your Hireling gives you some options in controlling your NPC like Stand Your Ground, Guard Me, Heal Me, Use Only Ranged Weapons, Use Only Melee Weapons, Follow Me, etc. He only acts like a maniac because you are letting him.

Please don't judge the game badly because you didn't read the manual or go through the tutorial patiently and don't know how to do things correctly. And I wouldn't judge the game on the tutorial alone, that's really stupid because it's such a small part of the game. Try making it past the first Chapter and then make an opinion on the game.

[ 07-07-2002, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Medieval Dead ]

i owrk at an electronics store and i can tell you if you have opened the game they will not allow you to return it if there is nothing wrong with it. just because if you can open it you can copy it. if a store does return it they would be stupid to do so.most major retailers though wouldnt.although i had some idiot return a ps2 game that was an error copy.he bought the game thinking it was gta3 and got it home popped it in and up popped moh:frontline.the label on the package and on the cd said gta3 but played the other. needless to say he returned it, i bought it then sold it on ebay for 250.

also did yorick try to sue disney when they portayed gypsies as rogues and or thiefs?to get that upset is just stupid. and in the game how did they portray gypsies as rogues, cause i rarely came across them.besides in real life anyone and everyone can and are thiefs.youre little old grndma yes we have arrested her for shoplifting.everyone is capable of theft.think of it this way your the bad guy trying to off the gypsies cause they are robbing from the rich to feed their poor during the wailing death. you just dont know it.or maybe the wailing death turned them mad and they started a thieving rampage. you never no expand the possibilities. image something up dont get bent over about it.

That I know my friend. But it seems a little odd that "Return to Castle Wolfenstein", "Blades of Darkness", "Thief II", "Metal Gear Solid", "Half Life", "Vampire the Mascarade", all work perfectly fine on my old Voodoo3 card. But again I know that I would have to eventually upgrade.

I've tried all of those on little Tommy. Stand your ground is the only one that sort of works. Guard me does nothing but give him an excuse to get himself killed. And heal me? He can't heal me. Ranged weapons? He doesn't have any, and YOU CAN'T EVEN GIVE HIM ANY IF YOU WANTED TO! He acts like a maniac because I don't have any control over him.

The game would get a 10 out of 10 from me it wasn't for the fact that you can't have more than one NPC, and for the fact that you have little or no control over that single NPC. That's my main beef.

the game wasnt ment to have a party of 5 little tagalongs like bg2 it was ment that if you were gonna have a tagalong you would have several people online as a tagalong. besides that they made the game difficulty based on you and 1 henchman. if you have more than one it makes it unfair or to easy.make the game a challenge and beat it without them.

Actually, he does have a bow. Just talk to him and tell him you want to change his tactics. One of the options it gives is to use missile weapons (all of the characters have that option).

Ah, yes they are. Romanies are Gypsies. Don't know where you're getting your information bro.

Taken from: http://www.worldlanguage.com/Languages/Romany.htm

Taken from: http://www.bartleby.com/65/ro/Romany.html
And finally from the same site:
[ 07-07-2002, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

You are totally missing the point thiefprowess. It is a race of people not a class. Inaccuracies such as this in NWN only perpetuate misconception and negative stereotypes. It breeds ignorance basically.

I'd like to see a patch that replaces the word "Gypsie" with something else before a Romany/Gypsie does sue over it.

[ 07-07-2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

blacks white mexicans asians indians whatever they are all races of people. i could be a white gypsie therefore i am CLASSified as a white gypsie. gypsie is not a race. the one white guy they call the american taliban. he isnt of the middle east yet hes called into the class of taliban cause he associates with them.can you disprove that a gypsie has even not stolen anything?rogue as well, a rogue classifies as someone out of the norm of everyday people.gypsies traveled they did not stay stationary for to long. like most people who lived in cities so they where known as rogues. doesnt make them a bad person just different.

a**hole:definition 1 you have one between youre legs.
definition 2 you are an a**hole slang.

does everything in your dictionary have one definition or does that one word have different meanings.

im sure in youre perfect world of religion all preists dont molest little boys. but in a real world in another definition it happens.this is not a 2d world there are many sides and many definitions to everything.

i say religion is bad if it spawns preists who molest boys.and if preists are molesting boys then it is acceptable in that religion.and i wouldnt have any part of it.

you conteract and say not all preists are like that its not all about molesting boys but unity under god.you would then proceed to tell me im not being open minded and that i see it from one point of view.

well my freind your doing that right now.look at it from every angle before you judge.

and gamemakers dont breed hatred its the religious people out there who take it waaaayyyyy to literally. you get offended way to easiely. its a game enjoy it. if youre not into fantasy like this dont play it. do you think the game creators who made this game where honestly thinking "hehehe now we are gonna get those stupid gypsies back and brand them as hated rogues of the world" no, farthest thing from their minds was to breed hatred.they made a genre game that many people enjoy and you have turned it into a race issue here.

what race are you to see everything so friggin literally.you know i can see why people have to complain about the game say when it has glitches or bad quality music or just a bad storyline but no you gotta bring racist issues into this.are you prejudice to the point that anything that remotely affect or ressembles race or creed that you have to get involved.

First off, with the title "Neverwinter Nights" it's easy to corrilate this name with the rest of the Forgotten Realms which it exists in(Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale). Therefore you would think that the developers (Bioware) would create NWN to be consistent with the award-winning games of BG and IWD, only with enhanced 3D graphics and a few new additions. That is if they were SMART! But to change the entire combat style and party options, I think was an ENORMOUS blunder! And obviously it would make no sense under the current "engine" or "make up" of the game to allow for more than two party members. But for the life of me I can't figure out why they designed the game as (basically) a single player game!!??!!??

rogue Pronunciation Key (rg)
n.
An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal.
One who is playfully mischievous; a scamp.
A wandering beggar; a vagrant.
A vicious and solitary animal, especially an elephant that has separated itself from its herd.
An organism, especially a plant, that shows an undesirable variation from a standard.

adj.
Vicious and solitary. Used of an animal, especially an elephant.
Large, destructive, and anomalous or unpredictable: a rogue wave; a rogue tornado.
Operating outside normal or desirable controls: “How could a single rogue trader bring down an otherwise profitable and well-regarded institution?” (Saul Hansell).


Gyp·sy also Gip·sy Pronunciation Key (jps)
n. pl. Gyp·sies
A member of a people that arrived in Europe in migrations from northern India around the 14th century, now also living in North America and Australia. Many Gypsy groups have preserved elements of their traditional culture, including an itinerant existence and the Romany language.
See Romany.
gypsy One inclined to a nomadic, unconventional way of life.
A person who moves from place to place as required for employment, especially:
A part-time or temporary member of a college faculty.
A member of the chorus line in a theater production.

odd they both have different definitions not all meaning the same thing.

sir heinrich do you wait for the day when final fantasy 84 comes out?
you play the same game over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over sorry was getting repetious there for a minute.oh wait like what youre talking about.they changed the game up for a reason. for variety. its based on the original buut they changed it around for good reason.and you obviously havent played it online either.they made the fgame simplified in the sense that all you have to worry about is yourself in the game. oh well i guess the people that complain the most are most unfreindly to change.

Hey thiefprowess, I think you need to tone it down a notch or two OR TEN! Before you get this thead locked up!

And why are you bringing up child molesters?!?! You are way out of line, and it's obvious that you can't support your argument against Yorick. He makes some valid points, mind you that.

Anyways... let's just cool down and try to be civil.

What is with people, If you remember the developers said that the included campaign wasn't the sole reason for the game they were counting on us to make the modules they just provided the toolset, hell I've made 4 mods already and each one is getting better and better. So give it a rest and I know it's a slow starter but as someone said that's for poeple who haven't played before. Also to add the layout is similar to Pools of Radiance (menu's, views etc) but the thing is the detail they put into the included campain is incredible. People give it awhile and try the multiplayer aspect which is a key part of NWN

and one last thing to people who are upset that its not like BG2. bioware never said NWN was gonna be another expansion to BG2 but a whole new platform. they have been saying it from the beginning of its creation.sure it has lost some of its greater qualities of BG2 but it has some awesome qualities that BG2 didnt have. if i go back to playing BG2 after i have thouroughly enjoyed playing NWN im gonna be bummed cause i will not be able to fully customize my char like i could with NWN.and if you need 5 henchman to back you up you must not of had a good enough character to rely on.i could and did solo on BG2 many a times. i had good char creation.same with NWN if you build a good char you should have little problems with reloading.sometimes its not how challenging the game is that makes it fun but completing it thats the challenge.

the fights should never be impossible if you have the right equipment. what they do make challenging is finding the right equipment to be able to take out the challenging creatures with ease.

i was simply stating that instead of looking at this one topic from one broad spectrum you should look at it from all angles dont judge it from one point of view. be open to why others feel it is just.

and i get alittle outta hand when people have to bring race issues into a conversation that has literally nothing to do with what the original topic is about.

remember this topic is why this game is so boring not why this game is so racist.if he wants to talk about how racist this game is start a new thread. if somehow the game is being racist and you are BORED from it then sure post it. he was posting why he hated the game not why he was bored of the game.

megabot post originally that he played the game and was bored because it wasnt interesting to him.fine he doesnt like the game cause its not up to par to what he likes to play.fine ok he doesnt like it cause its not up to his speed.its slow its boring to him.

now come out saying i hope the gypsies dont sue for racist stereotyping has nothing to do with this thread.

lets get back onto the threads original topic already

Overall in my opinion, the game is about an 8 out of 10. Not bad. But I simply prefer the combat style of the BG and IWD series.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Icewind Dale is not BG III, but rather it's a separate game with a very similar gaming style (Infinity Engine I think). Of all the many people I have talked to who have played the Baldur's Gate series (or style) of games the primary complaint is the 2D graphics. So in my very humble opinion, Bioware should have created NWN as a 3D enhanced version of the Baldur's Gate series of games. Some of you feel the same way, but because this game has been hyped to death, you are afraid to admit it. But then again that is my opinion and I apologize if some of you are offended by my accusation.

They shouldn't change the Final Fantasy system too much, and why not? Because it's VERY good. There's no reason to fix things that aren't broken [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Change CAN be good, but not when it changes something that's already good to something that's worse.

valid point but you got to remember BG2 and IWD where based on second edition rules.
NWN plays of 3rd edition rules. totally different style of playing.they change the rules so as to not overpower any certain class.

Thanks. Thats exactly what I have been saying all along.... only in a long winded version;)

Now, now, uss... [img]graemlins/madhell.gif[/img]

No need for physical threats, we all love each other here at Ironworks, we do NOT threaten to kill them for having different opinions on a game (even if it is NWN). Rather, they are souls to be pitied, since they have not yet seen the light... :D

Seriously...take a chill pill, it's just a game. If Megabot doesn't like it, then he's entitled to. I just feel bad for him wasting his money an all. ;) </font>[/QUOTE]Dammit, i gotta stop making jokes that can easily be taken seriously :D !
nah, im not really pissed off or anything. i know its just a game. i also didnt like NwN at first but now im loving it [img]smile.gif[/img] . i really thing Megabot will learn to like this game in time ;) .
Megabot, i am sorry for threatening to kill you :D i wont do that anymore. but i can still hope :D :D ..

Uh... he has a bow. Select USE RANGED WEAPONS and he hangs back behind you and shoots arrows. By the way, STAND GROUND makes him stay put, but he will defend himself if attacked. GUARD ME has him attack whoever is attacking you, whether archers shooting arrows from far away or some dude with an axe, 2 feet away from him. Also you get the HEAL ME option when you have an NPC that has healing powers and was a general statement, not specific to Tomi. Each of the NPCs have their own special ability.

You probably should of researched the game before buying it. Nobody said it was going to be BG3. It's a single character game where you could play by yourself or play online with others. Anyway, you can sort of have more than one NPC, there are animal companions and summon creatures. ;)

1. Megabot is an idiot. Sorry the first 34 seconds of a 70-80 HOUR campaign were not to your liking... Perhaps if the makers had thrown a Demilich and a Tarrasque in the prelude it would have been more to your liking?

How 'bout NO npc's to talk to? No interaction whatsoever. Just you and the enemy?

Of course the prelude isn't the most exciting thing in the history of video-gaming... it's function is to explain the rules to people who haven't played the D&D3 rules yet, and how to function in the video environment.

2. You don't like the Module that comes with the game?

MAKE YOUR OWN.

3. You don't like the voices that come with the game?

MAKE YOUR OWN.

4. You don't like the PC pics that come with the game?

MAKE YOUR OWN.

(do you see a trend forming?)

5. Feats aren't that confusing. They all have a decent description in the game. Or you can always use the "Recommended" button.

6. "Yes, but apparently the strength of NWN is in multiplayer, so we will have to put up with a powergamer Barbarian/Monk/Assassin/Mage/Palladin/Druid. Won't we. "

Let them. With only 20 levels to split with 3 classes, they'll be mediocre in all of them...

7. Stop Freaking Whining.

calling somebody an idiot for not liking the game that you like is not good oldbittercraig.

If he had sunk some significant time in the game and given a laundry list of issues based on his playing experience, I would give him some credit and accept his opinion, as he had significant experience to draw upon.

BUT, if he can call the game boring based on two minutes in the prelude, and have his opinion respected as legitimate, I can also take two sentences of his post to formulate my opinion of him.

Fine, you are right I should have researched the game a little more before buying it.

However, I am curious to know if you or anyone else who is trying to defend this game's combat/party style would rather keep the current version of the game, or would rather play my version of the game? Remember let's try and be honest here.

My version:
Everything is the same except for; the Gypsy stereotypes, the dull/characterless male voices, the goofy looking male portraits (mostly), the silly screaming voices in the background (even after you have killed all the bad guys in that area), the one henchperson rule and DESIGN (YUCK), maybe a few aspects of the combat style, and much much more.

Now you're going to tell me that you would rather have the current version?!?!....I know it's tough, but be honest now.

OK, calm down everyone. Craig, we all have differing opinions to the game but there is no need to call people idiots because they have a different opinion. Some people love spaghetti, other people don’t. This is a GAME. No need for personal insults here. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Thiefprowess, I know what point you’re trying to make, but your post about child-molesters, religious fanatics etc. was completely out of line and has nothing to do with this topic whatsoever. Don’t do this again please. I think Yorick would be entitled to an apology from you.

On another note, I find it quite disappointing that the anger and negative emotion from religious discussions that took place at GD have somehow been transferred to this forum, which is a GAMING forum. I thought we would have all learned by now that one of the most difficult things to do is change someone’s opinion online. I’ll repeat what I said on one of the many discussions that have gone sour over there – you DO NOT have the right to be offended if someone has an opinion contrary to your own, as long as they are not violating ToS or attacking you personally. You DO have the right to get offended if someone attacks you personally.

I don’t care what started it, but if it doesn’t stop soon this thread will be locked. (It will be the FIRST thread I’ve had to lock in the NWN forum, incidentally).

[ 07-07-2002, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

I think Yorick has made some nice points, and it makes me a little sad seeing some people not letting him speak his opinions about this game.

this is a discussion board right?

hope I don't get cut down for this post, cause I don't often write something on the IW boards, I usually just read the posts.

Nobody’s cutting anyone down for posting their opinions here. All we’re requesting is that everyone keep a civil tone in such discussions – irrespective of what their opinions are, and respect that other people have a right to their opinions too. It’s when people get frustrated that they can’t convince the other person that they’re right, and that the other person’s wrong, that we start to have problems. I know we’re all astute enough to know when that line is crossed, however.

Thanks for your feedback – you’re always welcome to contribute as long as you adhere to that simple rule above. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm siding with Yorick now. Who wants to make a petition to fix the whole Gypsey thing? [img]smile.gif[/img] I'd sign it.