Can you explain to me how i'm supposed to help someone, if there are no signs whatsoever that he/she needs it ?

I spent 6 years with a wonderfull person who suffered with manic depression, she spent a year in hospital on 24 hour suicide watch, unable to even go to the toilet without having someone with her. Its difficult for a partner to understand, one minute everythings ok, the next total desperation, you begin to think it's your fault.

I remember when my Father was dying I got angry with Claire talking about suicide, compairing my dads situation, and telling her how he wanted to live but never had a choice, and she did, I suppose things got on top of me, but to this day I hate myself for saying it, very, very naive. As for carrying out 'the most selfish act' they don't see it that way, maybe it's us that are the selfish ones.

Claire passed away after complications during gallbladder surgery aged 30,so I suppose she got her way in the end.. she usually did [img]smile.gif[/img] and the only comfort I got from this is I know she's not suffering anymore.

As Epona said, unless you've lived with it it's difficult to understand the desperation.

*sighs* I just turned the argument around johnny. Writing off all people who commits suicide as cowards isn't the best thing to do. I don't know what it is like to be depressed, or having nothing to live for (for which I am very grateful). I do believe you feel the same. (At least I don't picture you as depressed :D ) [img]smile.gif[/img] So why accuse all those less fortunate of being cowards? Because they don't dare to face their life's hardship? What if they don't have a life to live?

[ 05-31-2003, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: WillowIX ]

They do it because they can find no way out. I've been through depression before, but it wasn't really serious and I got over it. They feel that it is just an easier way to rid themselves of the pain.

Today I took my life away,
what did I do..what can I say.
Wish I could have found another way,
To be here tomorrow, not yesterday.

I couldn't run with the flow,
I had to flee, I had to go,
I wasn't mainstream....If you see what I mean,
It may seem that I'm mean...
But I'm not.

Just lost in a world of forget me nots,
peaks and troughs, I can only see what I've lost,
never what I've gained,
I remember my pains, and the dormant thoughts,
I look at myself and I see the warts...
and all...

Now I hear the call....


I took my own life.
.
.
.
.
.
.
YOU FOOL YOU FOOL!!!....
come the words to my ears,
of my peers...

And they were right.

I've blamed everyone, been so uptight,
I thought I had the God given right,
to torture you all, now it's all my fault,
and upon my own web I'm now caught...
.
.
I'm stuck, I'm stranded...I'm going...
.
.
Going
.
.
I have been such a fool,
I didn't know how to make the call,
I walked crouched instead of tall,
my minds jester has had a ball,
.
.
.
the jester plays his final hand,
a poor one....
and so departs this land.
.
.
.

It's not the way,
I see that now,
I've been a pig, a proper sow,
nothing else can hurt me now....

....

Idiot I am...

....

But too late...

....

I'm dead

....

and gone

....

and buried

....

Wish I had a tomorrow,
but now only yesterdays are mine,
Oh man life was so sublime,
but it's now lost,
and what a cost,
and so somehow,
I'm gone,
no warmth,
.
.
see the worry upon my brow...
.
.

I am fading now...
.....
....
...
..
.
into..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.memory...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
please....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.try.....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
to......
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
remember me.......

Just as many have said here before you would have had to be depressed, or known someone that is, to really understand why anyone would want to end their life. Being depressed is not being a bit sad at the moment, it´s being sad to the point of crying constantly. Suicide just seems like a liberation at that point.

Besides I think that clinical depression has to do something with the brain, some chemical imbalance or similar, and can be triggered by a unpleasant event in ones life. Medication might be necessary.

At the end of the day, my life is my own and I will do with it what I please.

After working in Metal Health for almost 15 years, the last ten in crisis intervention, I can tell you that it is difficult if not impossible to understand the mindset of someone. Last year about 30,000 in the United States successfully committed suicide.

Suicide is often associated with mental illness but not always. Take for example a person with a terminal, painful and debilitating illness.

To get non-emergency help for someone you love (or yourself) look in the phone book under the headings: mental health, crisis intervention, depression or suicide. If all else fails call your local emergency room and ask where you can find help for depression.

If someone is actually threatening suicide, do not waste time, call the police.

Major Depression, Dysthymia and Bi-Polar Disorder (Manic-Depression) all have their root cause in a chemical imbalance. The most effective treatment options for these illnesses are medication therapy in combination with traditional talk therapy.
Situational issues, death of a loved one, divorce, loss of a job, school problems etc. can bring on symptoms very much like depression but suicidal thought are usually not associated with these traumas.

Individuals with Schizophrenia are considered to be at a higher risk of attempting suicide than individuals with Major Depression.

There is a class of mental disorder called Personality Disorders where one of the features is the individual will make suicidal threats, gestures or non-lethal attempts. These gestures are attention seeking activities. I have dealt with people who attempted suicide by taking 4 Tylenol or by ‘cutting’ themselves with a pencil.

If your having problems….get some help.
If someone you love is having problems help them get the help they need.

I was very close to replying to some of the posts on this thread with just, "STFU". Speaking as someone who has attempted suicide, I find some posts here insulting and insensitive. Please, consider what you type before you type it; this is a subject requiring tact. Depression and suicide are not "cowardly" in the slightest, no matter what your mate down the pub says. It's serious. I know that my depression would probably be just considered, "hormones", but it really wasn't; it was the scariest thing I have ever experienced.

I have to agree with Kaltia. I've been depressed - I am depressed, I've been suicidal, and it's probably the worst, most terrifying thing I've ever been unfortunate to experience. Some of these posts here were so incredibly insensitive I had to sit back and take several deep breaths before I was calm enough to post.
Imagine feeling utterly miserable, drained, horrible, distraught, feeling as if you're the most worthless being in existence and the world would be better if you'd never been born, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for months on end until you've forgotten what it feels like to be happy. Or were you ever happy? Imagine seeing your entire life go down the drain because of your feelings, because you're turning incapable of concentrating on something - seeing your grades at school drop, your friends begin to avoid you because you're acting so withdrawn and unfriendly, yourself lose interest in all the things that used to be fun until you just sit around at home and stare at the ceiling. Imagine suffering from nervous breakdowns, huge floods of negative emotions that are so incredibly emotionally *painful* - like nothing else you've ever experienced - that you can only sit in a corner and sob until they finally pass, that you even start hurting yourself simply to distract yourself from the sheer onslaught of grief, self-hatred and despair, transforming some of the emotional pain into physical because you have to do something or else you'll burst. Imagine these breakdowns coming several times a day, *every* day, at random intervals. Imagine not being able to go to anyone for help because they won't take you seriously, because hardly anyone takes mental illnesses seriously in this day and age.
Imagine all that, and you have an inkling of what it is like to be seriously, clinically depressed.
And then imagine reading posts by people who have had the fortune not to have to go through this living hell, talking about how cowardly suicide is. It's not. The instinct of self-preservation is one of the strongest, maybe the strongest, that humans have. It takes some serious pain, either physical or mental, to shut it off.
When I was suicidal, I didn't want to die - I wanted to live. However, what I was - what I am - going through can't be called living anymore. It was a living hell, that's what it is, and I just couldn't take it anymore. But...
Tell me, you people who said that suicide is the coward's way out, have you ever tried it? Have you ever held the knife, opened the pill-box, stood at the edge of the precipice? Quite frankly, it takes a great deal of bravery to take that step, to leave behind your life - no matter how horrible it is - and jump into the unknown. I couldn't take it. I was too cowardly, as you so nicely and tactfully put it. Of course, I'm glad I was, otherwise I wouldn't be here anymore. And, contrary to expections, I do want to live. But the point remains - killing oneself requires much more courage than most people have.

Anyway, those were my 2 cents. *steps off soapbox* Thank you, Kaltia, for informing me of the existence of this thread. Although I don't usually frequent IW anymore, this was far too offensive to pass up.

Kaz

[ 05-31-2003, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: Kaz ]