True, TL. My point was that any administration will tromp on states' rights if it feels it is important enough, no matter how slim the pretext. Most of the federal government's intervention in the civil rights struggle was based on the constitutional statement that the states could not interfere with interstate commerce.

I personally don't believe a word of this article, nor any argument in its favor, because it isn't based on a quote from the Reverand Jesse Jackson. ;)

Having Jesse in the post about Bush's "contempt for the elderly and veterans" brought a degree of believability to the article despite its purposely misleading title. [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img]

Without Jesse's charisma to save it, this thread does suffer from having a sensational title that has little relation to the story within. Kind of like something from the National Enquirer. The story inside may be interesting and may even be true, but the title it's given is meant to get a reaction and not to convey the actual contents. [img]graemlins/deal.gif[/img]

[ 12-02-2002, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

<font color="#ff00cc">Sorry my "on point" comment was left out in my haste :D I edited it and put it in...do you see? (another reason why I intersperse my replies to multi-pronged issues, so I don't forget things. [img]smile.gif[/img] )

I haven't had the chance to really do an indepth reading on the issue, need to look at it some more before I decide if Im for or against it...USUALLY I am against a lot of the more draconian EPA mandates due to the havoc they cause for small independant non-corporate people/farmers/land owners

Oh and I never thought you would call me "demure" ;) oops...you said demur.</font>

<font color="#ff00cc">OOoops, just noted this was from SFGate. I put it a couple of steps down from the National Enquirer [img]smile.gif[/img] Anything in that publication is HEAVILY slanted and likely to be misleading. Ill check in the Washington post which while left leaning, makes some pretext at being accurate.</font>

[ 12-02-2002, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

LOL@Magik!

Even at that, the sites' title for this article was "New pollution rules overpower California, U.S. laws jeopardize state's air standards".

I don't hear the ring of "Bush Stamps On States Rights" anywhere in it. ;) [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#ff00cc">Well knowing how much Drammie loves our president he probably didn't see any harm including his name, after all he won't be held accountable for his comments. </font>

Well, on that note it's a good thing quite often that we're not accountable for our comments on these boards. ;) Side note: to be sued for slander/lible against a public/famous figure, you have to have intended malice and actually harmed them. This is a pretty high hurdle, and why we can hypothesize about Bush's business relations without fear of reproach whereas if we do it to each other we'd get our asses sued off. ;)

Attalus, yep, in case you didn't know the "commerce clause" is the hole in the constitution you can drive a truck through. So long as the Congress can dream up a way an issue *might* foreseeably affect interstate commerce, it can basically legislate on that issue. This leads to a near-police-power ("police power" means governing of general health and welfare, and is considered reserved for the states) by the Fed. This has been the justification for legislation and regulation regarding such things as flies in Hawaii that live nowhere else in the US.

<font color="#ff00cc">Hey! Welcome back from court [img]smile.gif[/img] How'd it go?

I think you took my comment about drammie in the wrong direction...I was gonna bring up Ad. Hom attacks and Straw men..but thought that it would have been mean so I droped it from my post [img]smile.gif[/img] . </font>

Well, more than a straw man it was really me just espousing useless knowledge. But, point taken anyway. ;)

Court went fine - I vacated an order that would cost the client $3K that was entered today without any notice. On that note, back to the grind.

ok, ive read it a few times and im tired of not knowing what it means (the problems of not being a native english speakers). what does straw men/man means? i have a guess but i want to confirm it. thanks for your time and please dont charge me for the information. :D