I have to agree with Iron Ranger on this one.In the area where I live all of the drug dealers are "people of color". If you show me a white guy dealing drugs , I will show you an undercover cop. When the local cops arrest one of the real dealers all they do is spout off at the mouth about profileing and racism.Never mind the fact that they had enough drugs on them to supply half of the city. It gets even better when they fight with the cops , because as soon as the cop roughs them up they scream "police brutality".

As for your friends situation with the cops Azrael, a way to prevent it in the future would be to either get electric door locks or lock all the doors when you get out.It is kind of hard for a cop to get into a locked car.Also unless they place your friend under arrest they cant take his keys from him.So , when the search is refused they cant just go ahead and do it anyway.

I think that the police do a marvelous job. Every time I commit a crime, there they are, right behind me :D [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Not to burst your bubble, but this is not correct in many places. Fact is, here in Chicago 90% of the ne'er-do-wells the cops deal with are in fact people of color. It's a fact of life, and they do not by any means avoid people of color for fear of a racist branding. Chicago's really good about hiring minority officers as well, so this is not such an issue.

<font color="plum"><font color="orange">AzRaeL</font>,

I'm sorry your friend was detained for so long, but were not totally out of line. A broken tail-light IS sufficient reason to pull somebody over. AFA the search of his car, the police do not need his consent - as long as they can prove "reasonable suspicion". Obviously, that's a very subjective area, but as others have pointed out, officers have to be able to justify what they do or they will get ripped apart in the courtroom. And if they conduct an illegal search without justification, they have wasted the judges time, something they frown on greatly and that they won't forget. The next time the officer comes before that judge, he had definitely have his facts together in an unreproachable manner.

I know this for a fact because a good friend of mine is a policewoman in Charlotte, NC. Another mutual friend of ours mentioned the exact same type of incident. A friend of his was pulled over and his car was searched without his consent. One reason is that the guy was a "river guide" (we have two rivers that attract a LOT of rafters in this area) - and as my friend admitted, these "river guides" have a not-undeserved reputation of being "wasters" (his term, not mine).

BTW, they found nothing in his car either.

There has been a lot of talk about "preventing murders" and other "serious crimes" instead of just doing the equivalent of "no-brainer work". But as Downunda pointed out, ticketing speeders IS a preventative measure. Yes, Susan MAY still have been hit if the driver was only doing 20, but I seriously doubt it. He would have had MUCH more time and distance to stop before hitting her. High speed and inattentive drivers are the major causes of almost ALL accidents (unless one driver or both are "impaired"). What the cops are doing is allocating their resources in the most efficient manner.

There is absolutely NO WAY for them to PREDICT where a murder or robbery will take place. Therefore, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to prevent these crimes (unless the officer just happens to be at the right place at the right time). But there IS a way to predict when and where people will be speeding.

<font color="skyblue">True Moose</font> mentioned the kids being busted at school for smoking pot while a public brawl was going on just a few blocks away. Again, HOW were the cops supposed to know a brawl was going to break out? They couldn't know. BUT, it's a pretty safe bet they can catch some kids smoking pot at the school house.

My other main point is this - Cops have one of the hardest jobs there is, PERIOD. How many of us face a very real risk of being killed every time we go to work. Then, on top of that, any action we take while performing our job is subject to intense public scrutiny in which they are "damned if they do and damned if they don't". If they crack down on drug dealers, they're accused of profiling and racism. If they don't crack down, they're accused of taking "kickbacks" and letting drug dealers run rampant. If they setup a road block or speed trap, they're accused of "trying to meet their monthly quota", but if they don't stop a speeding driver who later cripples a little girl for life, then they're accused of sitting on their butts at the donut shop instead of out on the street where they are supposed to be.

Again, I'm sorry your friend was inconvenienced, <font color="orange">AzRaeL</font>, but I have far more sympathy for the cops than I do for him. In the end, your friend received a ticket for a legitimate violation and nothing more. So I really don't see that he has any reason to complain.

Just my opinion,though. Others may (and probably will) vary.</font>

I think I see Azrael's point though. I think the police concentrate on petty violations more than they should. I got stopped because I was doing 65 on a 55 road here in Maine. I mean come off it, it was a deserted country road at 2am. What I was doing out at that time was far more questionable, if you ask me :D [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 09-24-2002, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Arledrian ]

I can attest to this, I work with several MP's, who are reservist, and their normal work is as police officers, in the Washington DC, or baltimore area, and several of them work in "ethnically profuse" neighborhoods, and have on several occasions had cases thrown out because of racial profiling, despite the fact that their area to work in is a majority of blacks, or hispanics.

which is more likely why you got stopped, except in completely anal small towns where they need to supplement their budgets with traffic tickets most cops ignore you if you're doing 10 or less over the speed limit, the speeding was simply an excuse to stop you and check.

true, but it would have been just as easy to give the guy a warning, especially if he was unaware of the violation.

<font color="plum">They probably could have, but after searching the car and finding nothing, it was probably their way of "saving face". Yeah, it's petty and they could have overlooked it, but they're also within their rights to issue the ticket.

Several years ago, a college buddy of mine and I decided to take a road trip to Raleigh, NC. He had a brand new Mustang SVO and - on the way back - was driving around 85-90mph. Suddenly, his radar detector lit up like a Christmas tree and we saw a cop cut across the median about a half-mile in front of us (which wasn't very far considering the speed we were doing).

My buddy was SURE they had caught HIM on radar, so he got hard on the brakes and took an exit that happened to come up before we caught the cop. We pulled into the convenience store and spent about 30 minutes waiting for the trooper to give up and go on down the road. He didn't.

He was still waiting for us when we came back down. The only problem was, my friend had hit the brakes before he could get an "official reading" on his radar. He was sitting on the side of the road and pulled out after we passed. He followed us a little way, pulled out as if he were going to pass, then dropped back behind us and "blue-lighted" us. Seems my friends tag had expired, so the trooper was able to give us a ticket for that.

But his "real" message was to let us know the he COULD have had us for a much worse violatio.

Just like <font color="red">Arledrians</font> example, I'm guessing they had a different reason or suspicion for pulling your friend over, and the taillight was just a convenient "back-up" in case their suspicions were incorrect.</font>

we need speed limits like they have on the autobon -p
you know i hear most of the accidents they have are by foreigners instead of the local populace, so it aint speed that kills, its people who arent used to the norm.

Police shouldnt be focuses on preventing a murdur, they ought to be more focused on solving the huge stockpile of cases they have. And in the example above where the brawl breaks out at the same time as the pot smokers, well the police will likely have been informed by their radios that a brawl is taking place nearby and they need to move their butts; just like the convenience store robbery; the cops will likely have been alerted, and all nearby units should drop any petty concerns like speeding tickets to move for an immediant capture of the crooks.