[quote]Originally posted by The Hierophant:

Quote:

You can view history in any way that you choose. Yet just because some people in history have decided to fight each other it does not mean that you have to take the same path. All there is is your own personal perception of world, influenced by forces outside your control (which includes the world-perceptions of other people too). You make your own choices. I'm not going to kill my own kind. I've made that choice already. I don't care what rhetoric is used by others in order to try and make me change my mind. We're all living on unconfirmed time. Don't give in to the mob-mentality of war, or else you will be perpetuating the war cycle that you insinuate is the curse of mankind. Never think of human beings as formations of 'sides'. To do so is to accept the folly of violent conflict and the segregation of man. It is falsehood, and can lead you to nowhere but ruin.

<font color="#ffccff">Do you promote the idea that when threatened, a person or state or nation should not defend them selves? that you should never take preemptive steps to protect yourself?

If this is your philosophy, then I must ask, do you lock the doors to your home? do you lock the doors to your car? would you not protect your own child or wife when they are threatened? To just sit there and say, violence never solves anything is to ignore everyday physical proof to the contrary. I certainly would hate to be a dependant of such a person who would allow any old thug to abuse me, all in an effort to remain true to this fallacious pacifisitc credo. </font>

And to add a little example: take a look at what happened in a US hospital in Yemen this week.

No, I don't promote that idea [img]smile.gif[/img] And I certainly don't advocate 'just sitting there'. I guess where the confusion of motive comes into things here is where do you place your sense of identity. I don't feel any kinship with a particular national name, just the people I 'know' personally (online acquaintences included). Of course this makes my allegiances simplistic and perhaps even naieve. But simple is the way I like it. You're a good man Magik, and you're only trying to point out the illogicies of what I've been saying (and have been meeting some success I might add, well done [img]smile.gif[/img] ), but I guess we're just on different social wavelengths is all. Maybe with a little time and experience I'll learn my lessons, if I havn't fallen prey to all the conflict the world has to offer by then [img]smile.gif[/img]

[quote]Originally posted by MagiK:

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<font color="#ffccff">Don't suppose you would care to put a link to some explanations of this? From the information that I have, US and British planes have been striking at Anti-Aircraft weapons that were in the process of locking them up. This is the process where they target the planes with radar in preperation to fire the AA missile or their AAA guns. While some of these Missiles are located in populated areas that is not the fault of the US or the British. You do not see the British and the Americans locating their weapons systems in population centers just to deter attacks against them. I would also hardly call attacks against aggressive anti-aircraft defenses as a "war". </font>

Believe me, I was trying to find a link to it [img]smile.gif[/img] I read the 'info' in my city's major newspaper as reported by a British correspondant and have since tried to find the appropriate link at the newspaper's website, but met with no luck. And indeed it takes a skewed perception of things, counting strikes in civilian-laden areas as civilian attacks (although civilian deaths have occured on several occasions according to the article). My point simply was that nothing will 'set this war in motion' as the gears have been turning for some time now. All moral judmentality aside, it's already begun, UN inspectors or no.

[ 01-01-2003, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

<font color="#ffccff">Don't suppose you would care to put a link to some explanations of this? From the information that I have, US and British planes have been striking at Anti-Aircraft weapons that were in the process of locking them up. This is the process where they target the planes with radar in preperation to fire the AA missile or their AAA guns.

While some of these Missiles are located in populated areas that is not the fault of the US or the British. You do not see the British and the Americans locating their weapons systems in population centers just to deter attacks against them. I would also hardly call attacks against aggressive anti-aircraft defenses as a "war". </font></font>[/QUOTE]I would also point out that they have been warned repeatedly, even to the point of dropping pamphlets, that if they attempt to "lock on" to coalition aircraft, the sites doing so will be destroyed.

Who Knows, Who Cares, only those that shall despair.
The US holds first strike rights! Well, kinda, we did kinda wussy up and allow to only retaliate on chemical counter strike. And well, umm, we shall never use bio.

The real question is, WHAT IS THE REAL OBJECTIVE????

We do not have enough munitions to destroy all of mankind, not even once. Wipe the snot from your nose, and dry behind your ears. Can you recall 1991, I can, I was there. Where were you? We bombed for over 30 days. We ran flat out of some types. And that was for 1 army, in one country, on a small slice of one contietent. How could we ever wipe out all of the evil of the world???

We need help my friend, friends that will aid in battle, and stand fast for what is right FOR THE WORLD.

What happens if all of you that want the US to take over Iraq, and it happens? What is next? Who will provide the peace keeping? Are you going to leave the comfort of your computer room and pull duty?

Na, we shalt not invade alone, only when their are others to provide help with the aftermath details. Will you stand and be counted?

No Longer is there a Peace to Put as Peace Out.
Semper Fi!
Felix

Uh...what? Sorry man, I don't quite follow.

[quote]Originally posted by The Hierophant:

Quote:

No, I don't promote that idea [img]smile.gif[/img] And I certainly don't advocate 'just sitting there'. I guess where the confusion of motive comes into things here is where do you place your sense of identity. I don't feel any kinship with a particular national name, just the people I 'know' personally (online acquaintences included). Of course this makes my allegiances simplistic and perhaps even naieve. But simple is the way I like it. You're a good man Magik, and you're only trying to point out the illogicies of what I've been saying (and have been meeting some success I might add, well done [img]smile.gif[/img] ), but I guess we're just on different social wavelengths is all. Maybe with a little time and experience I'll learn my lessons, if I havn't fallen prey to all the conflict the world has to offer by then [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#ffccff">Well I don't know about the "good" part but I try. Yes we do seem to have completely different angles on nationality. I was raised, and adopted as an adult a strong affinity for the ideals of the United States of America. Note that I said Ideals and while my nation may frequently fall short of the Ideal, I do believe we come closer to them than anyone else int he world (of course since they are american ideals I don't really expect anyone else to really hold them [img]smile.gif[/img] ) Now that you express your focus in the manner of being loyal to friends and family I can see where you are coming from.
I also have loyalty for my friends and family, My kids, my family, myself then my country and friends. Anyway Happy New year!!!! :D </font>

[quote]Originally posted by The Hierophant:

Quote:

Uh...what? Sorry man, I don't quite follow.

<font color="#ffccff">My thoughts exactly [img]smile.gif[/img] Not Sure what you are getting at Felix. Especially your last line. Peace to put as peace out? </font>

I've read about the American founding fathers, the notions of independance, courage in defiance and everyone making their own way. Those are some good principles, make sure you hold onto them (and I'm sure you will). I guess George and Tom and the lads just didn't count on America becoming such a powerful collective in the centuries that followed. How to balance the ideals of freedom with the trappings of power? Tricky business for any person...
And it's good to know you hold true to your loved ones. Some folks really do care more about their 'nation' than their families. I don't know, just doesn't feel... wholesome. But maybe I'm whacked.

And hey, HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU TOO!!! Let the good times roll!