No, terrorists target innocent people intentionally and favor them over millitary targets. If the terrorists has the choice it will be a civilian target rather than millitary one.

If the USA was doing that I could see the point, but it is not. You really have to twist things to make the USA the terrrorists.

I said it before and I'll say it again. There is no such thing as an innocent civilian. If you are aware of your country's actions to the detriment of others, you're not innocent. And if you're not aware of it, you're just as responsible for not informing yourself or simply accepting the situation as it is.

Our society as a whole is based on the principle that we elect our leaders. Those leaders then take actions and the responsibility for those actions lies both with the government and the population that elected it. In case of a totalitarian regime, it also falls on the population because it obviously accepts the regime or a coup would have taken place.

Now, actions provoque reactions. Which is exactly what we have seen on 9-11. In this case, many actions were present (which I'm not even going to get into in this tread), and, we saw the reaction that they intaled. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif

To claim total innocence is like negating the social contract that holds society together.

Of course we have to really twist things to make America (or Western Civilization) the terrorist... that's us. Go to Afghanistan and ask who the terrorist is, they'll answer Bush! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif

So, in essence, we are all terrorists. It just so happens that we are the righteous ones (well, to us anyway http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif)

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[This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-19-2001).]

That changes nothing,

A terrorist intentionally targets civilians over millitary ones.

And you are twisting that fact to fit it to the United States to make your point.

You are twisting things to your own logic so badly here that it's not even worth it for me to get into a debate with you about it. This has to be the most right-wing, .... n/m we're concentrating on military targets and if civilian targets get hit well, we gave them 3 weeks. They aimed right off at a place that had NO military value, only civilians. I am ashamed.

Prime

Okay, here, maybe. But in Afghanistan? Please tell me how they are supposed to inform themselves? Their press is biased, most of them are impoverished, starving, homeless and exploited. How are they supposed to find *relalatively* neutral information on what's going on (completely neutral information is pretty impossible)? And - what about the children? Of COURSE they wouldn't inform themselves, even if they could, they're kids! Does anyone expect them to go and read newspapers - if they could read? If there were neutral newspapers? Don't they count as innocent civilians?
Sorry for the tone of this post, I'll go cool down now *takes a nice, long, COLD shower*

BTW, Dreamer, I think I agree with you. We'll all blow each other to oblivion and take the rest of the planet with us sometime ("we" being humanity in general, I mean look at our history), but it's not necessarily because of religion. Religion has been used as an excuse, that's all.
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[This message has been edited by Kaz (edited 10-20-2001).]

YAY!! I am a terrorist!! (look at the post above)

Time to celebrate!! YAY!! everyone is a torrorist here!! YAY!! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/No...ons/icon23.gif

wait, did I miss something here?

**takes out his idiot-to-be-killed list and adds another name**

I did not mean that we are all terrorists, I meant that there seems to be a flaw in humans - the violence flaw. I mean, look at our history. It's enough to make you cry. Many people don't have it, but one person is one person too many.
BTW, I only partially meant that BTW in my last post. I'm just a bit down today (as always http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif)

[This message has been edited by Kaz (edited 10-20-2001).]

The ones with the motives that most accurately fit the description. America gave full warning, and are reacting in self defence.


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sigh...

**hugs**

**hugs** back.

I agree with Yorick, btw. Although the Americans are killing innocent (yes, innocent) civilians, they are not doing so on purpose. They gave warning before they attacked, although I doubt many of the civilians heard it. It is definetely a controversial point, but I would not call the Americans terrorists.