I'm aware the map indicates the rest of the world didn't want President Bush to win re-election, I'm also aware that citizens of those countries have as much say about who we elect in the USA, as citizens of the USA has about who their leaders are, Zero say. There maybe concern/interest/desire to see one leader over another, but those things are not "say".

Edit: Things like the map are an attempt to make one feel better. To that I ask if you put your hand in a flame and it hurts, is it better to learn not to put your hand in the flame again or to learn to feel better about the pain?

You got to play the hand dealt ya, not play somebody elses hand. :D

[ 11-18-2004, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]

I'm not american, but yeah, I greatly dislike Bush - to say "hate" is too strong a word, but it comes close, no matter what he does, I won't ever like him - as a president. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I could do a better job, but I don't like how he's done his. Regardless of whatever circumstances or blah-blah-blah. It doesn't matter what he does in the next four years - I still won't ever like him. There, are you happy? ;D

I'm not american, but yeah, I greatly dislike Bush - to say "hate" is too strong a word, but it comes close, no matter what he does, I won't ever like him - as a president. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I could do a better job, but I don't like how he's done his. Regardless of whatever circumstances or blah-blah-blah. It doesn't matter what he does in the next four years - I still won't ever like him. There, are you happy? ;D </font>[/QUOTE]Yes I am Calaethis Dragonsbane, now you and I can converse openly and honestly. We know where each other is coming from, no justifications, just open honest dialoge.

gee, I'm touched :D . In all fairness, I feel exactly the same for Kerry. [img]tongue.gif[/img] . God bless America! (I suspect she needs it. ;) )

I'm not as harsh as CD. If Bush woke up today, walked on water across the Atlantic, made peace in the middle east, walked on across the Mediterranean and made peace with Europe, then walked back home and balanced the budget, and wound up his day by firing every EPA person he's put in place so far, then --- THEN JUST MAYBE -- I'd forgive his past buffonery. MAYBE. :D

hehe. Ok, well, if he did that ;) , I'd admire the man, for that, but not forgive his past ;) . I might allow him a few more mistakes though. ;) - Depending on how serious they were. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

nah! i'd be really happy if Bush gets rid of some of his cabinet secretaries including dumsfeld. and also get rid of cheney and frist if he could. then openly make a very sincere apologies to the Iraqi people for wrongly accusing them of having WOMD and having links to al-queda(sp?), and killing 100,000 people and still counting. however, he needs to stay and help rebuild the damages that he has done. no turning back. you big buffoon. and also he should get rid of that neck lurching when he speaks.

I do believe it's called money and political pressure. Those things are "say" John. The American economy relies on exports and imports with other countries who have opinions about who they'd prefer in the white house.

If America is the New Rome, and the Pres the Emperor, you can bet we provincials have every right to care about elections that determine, in some cases, life and death. If they really want to, those countries can have their say by boycotting American products, barring tourism and immigration to Americans, voting as a bloc in the UN, raising tarrifs, expelling diplomats etc etc etc.

It is an arrogant imperialist who doesn't care a fig what the rest of the world thinks. Arrogant imperialist. It's called "riding roughshod". I would think what the rest of the world thinks about the person that speaks and represents you to them is quite important.

[ 11-18-2004, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

<font color = lightgreen>I would have to unfortunately disagree with you. It is a person with a positive self-image and who doesn't need the opinions of others for self-worth who doesn't care a fig what the rest of the world thinks. An individualist doesn't have to have a highly positive public opinion poll result in order to live life fully.
Since other world leaders don't consult popular opinion before speaking in public, why should ours?</font>

I do believe it's called money and political pressure. Those things are "say" John. The American economy relies on exports and imports with other countries who have opinions about who they'd prefer in the white house.

If America is the New Rome, and the Pres the Emperor, you can bet we provincials have every right to care about elections that determine, in some cases, life and death. If they really want to, those countries can have their say by boycotting American products, barring tourism and immigration to Americans, voting as a bloc in the UN, raising tarrifs, expelling diplomats etc etc etc.

It is an arrogant imperialist who doesn't care a fig what the rest of the world thinks. Arrogant imperialist. It's called "riding roughshod". I would think what the rest of the world thinks about the person that speaks and represents you to them is quite important. </font>[/QUOTE]So Yorick how did you vote? or your money vote? what about your feelings? when did they cast votes? Votes is what counts in an election or have you forgotten in the re-count thread you want to re-count votes? ;)

Stop buying our exports, stop exporting to us! Go ahead make my day cut the Largest consumer in the world out of your bussiness, just don't come complaining to me when you can't meet payroll, can't pay the bills because you decided to quit selling to your biggest customer. Stop American tourism, don't let us spend our money in your countries! Lordy, Lordy, I've been saying for years I look forward to the next Dark ages.

Nowhere did I say it wasn't important to the rest of the world, I said the rest of the world has no "say" in our elections any more then I as a US citizen has a "say" in the elections of your native country. That's the reality of life, I make no claim as to wiether it is pretty, or nice but that it IS. It is the United State of America not the United State of Earth. Now if any country wishes to become part of the USA we'll be happy to let them in provided they get the propper number of votes to join the Union. Until then they are not part of this Union and as outsiders to the Union they have no "say".

[ 11-18-2004, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]