I wonder what millions of people around the world, devoid of any water or only have access to sewer standerd water thinks of this debate?

granted that they dont have water or access to sewer standard water, i somehow doubt they've been to the ironworks forum to see this debate and therefore they probably dont think much of it at all...

But they didn't know about what was in the water, did they?
Maybe they would have invented filtered water if they had...

Shouldn't God have warned them then?

'Thou shalt not drink New York's tap water.'

[ 06-05-2004, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Stratos ]

Oh, the jews had sinned greatly. I wonder with how many hours of prayer did they made up for that sin? :D

If cannibalism is against Kosher laws, I wonder if drinking from the East River would thus be a sin...

Of course ignoring the deadly health hazards imposed by such a stupidilicious action as drinking from the East River.

First of all if Jewish people lived in 3rd world countries which some do, as there aren't many of us to go around, they would condone the fact that there are impurities in drinking water and thus drink when neccessary simply for the fact that you need to survive. Life is greater then keeping kosher, but if you can do something about it, then by all means it is a Jew's obligation to do so and follow Torah law.

As for the person that said crustacians weren't even mentioned within the Torah, i'm going to fill you in on a little secret, the Torah is not to be taken in literal context, it is interpretation. The derivation of the many Talmudic laws that exist, which is quite a lot comes from direct interpretation and logic that commentators in the past have pointed to. Another little secret is that the Torah is the written portion of Jewish law, with the written portion came, you guessed it, oral tradition. Oral tradition has been passed down throughout all generations untill it became apparent that it is quite possible that the Oral Law had become corrupt or simply wrong. (Like playing telephone). Therefore a rabbi (forgot who) went against oral tradition and wrote down the oral laws forming the Gemura. The Gemura is a compilation of all oral laws and traditions that use to be recalled purely by memory.

I do not expect you to understand or even agree with anything above. I am simply pointing out that many statements found in this thread is well. . . ignorant. It would be a good idea to research traditions and customs of other people to fully understand why this would prose such a problem to THEIR WAY OF LIFE. The other thing I would like to point out is that if your not part of the culture, or do not embrace it in anyway, than frankly it isn't any of your bussiness what they do, why would you care at all? Why can't you just overlook those things? There is a herrendous amount of secular faults in our world that can be traced down to the bickering of little children.

What has the Jewish community done to you? Frankly, they just want to be left alone and mind their own bussiness. Do not relate this to the problems with Israel and Palestine in anyway to this comment. I do not agree what is happening in the Middle East and there are some Jews who do believe it isn't our time to be there. If giving up a piece of land on a material plane to satisfy people to prevent the loss of thousands of innocent lives then by all means it should be done. I'm not going to Israel anytime yet and have no intentions to. Israel is also roughly the size of New Jersey o.O. But on the other hand if Israel is given up to the Palestinians, many radicals will still want us dead. ::sigh:: What a paradox.

Do unto others what you want done unto you. (The epitome of Jewish law)

[ 06-07-2004, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Nightcloak ]

Nightcloak, to the extent our views are "ignorant," please educate us. Your views as an apparently-practicing Jew (or at least one knowledgable of the practices) is valuable. Being folks who just want to try to discuss shit in this crazy world, we will often times make "ignorant" statements because we just don't know enough. Adding folks like you with specialized knowledge we don't generally have is part of the strength of IWF. Please take the time to educate us while you denegrate us (or, even better, in lieu of denegrating us).

Just my two pennies.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to make you feel like a no body. I just come across this type of thing all too often, as funny as that may seem.

As for being a practicing Jew, well hrm. . . - After an interesting family ordeal and a spark of OCD, and well - no friends, I found a religous orginization (or they found me o.O) who puts together those trip thingies in communities and stuff. I met a lot of nice unreligous and religous people and wanted to try it out. Make a long story short, I spent 8th grade in a yeshiva (Jewish private school), with the support of my parents (definetly not my sister!) and tried it out. Nothing too different, just Hebrew subjects became part of my everyday life for that year. Then came. . .

"Go to Israel, Go to Israel" A brainwashing phenomenon I found not to be affected by. So that and the fact that I wanted to go back to public school and show everyone I wouldn't take their crap anymore made my decision to leave.

**Coincidence** ?: - Second week of my return to public school -> hit by a car .

Anyway I saw both of two worlds and it was quite an interesting ride. The religous aspect to me had great views on everyday life, socialization, dresswear, and so forth. The "un-religous" side, well it was great to see a girl with a mini skirt on again too [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] !

[ 06-08-2004, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Nightcloak ]

As for the person that said crustacians weren't even mentioned within the Torah, i'm going to fill you in on a little secret, the Torah is not to be taken in literal context, it is interpretation.

so what youre saying is that when i mention the fact that the words "and then God said, 'though shalt not eat crustacians'" isnt in the torah, im right? you dont have to be defensive and all, i was just pointing out that one celled organisms MIGHT be a little excessive, but hey, its your game, right?

well it was great to see a girl with a mini skirt on again too

Oh, I know the feeling...

Not being defensive at all in this post, just letting you know first off.

Yes, by taking things in literal context and so forth and by "interpreting rationale" it would appear that people do take things a little too far. Hence one of the reasons why I have left the religous scene. Although I believe in God, there are simply many things I don't agree with, that do appear down out right mean. Does this make those who do such practices incompetant people? Only those who don't have open minds.

The other thing is that I would like to make apparent that it simply isn't your way of life. You don't know anything from it and it is entirly up to you whether or not you would like to find out more about it. All religions take some things over the top that may seem rediculous to another person in their perspective. It would be difficult to make you understand when your simply not brought up that way.

Now here is the area that aggrivates me, its those people who see a "new" thing or simply don't know enough about a subject and immeadiatly assume they have the right to judge another by their observation without any other input. This doesn't account for everyone or everything, for simply there are some things that are obviously wrong, but for some people to degrade a culture over such small things as. . . keeping kosher? I'm not saying you did, which you didn't but I have seen and heard many things in my very short existance which is sad.

This argument doesn't just pertain to how the majority of the world sees the Jewish culture, but how they see everyone elses cultures. Just because i'm going on about "people and Jews" this and "people and Jews" that, I don't mean to simply block out the other countless races and religions that have their very own severe problems in the world today just because "I don't believe in what you believe."

Religion is a tool for every day life, a guidance for the horrible things not under control by man, the gap for the unexplainable and unreachable, a connection to the things that only emotions can express. I guess what i'm trying to say is, in the end we commonly share the same values, perhaps not the way we practice them, but what we overall strive for.

::edit:: Concerning people making decisions and judging entirely what they see first hand is at its root a natural phenomenon that is uncontrollable. But in being human, we have been given a gift of choice, and choice is something that needs to be used wisely. Things in nature have developed the way it does simply for defensive and survival reasons, so I don't really blame anyone for how they react at first, it just aggrivates me when they can't look past such a basic instinct later.

C U L T U R E - S H O C K

[ 06-08-2004, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Nightcloak ]