Coming from anyone else I would have assumed this to be sarcasm.

But then you're assuming a man would undergo a sex change for such a shallow reason, and hence completely missing the point of it. People get sex changes because they feel deeply unhappy in their own bodies, because the gender they were born with feels inherently wrong to them, because they are men/women trapped in women's/men's bodies respectively. I doubt any of them would have competing in the Olympics foremost on their minds when they decided to undergo surgery/hormonal treatment. In fact, a man who feels he really was supposed to be a woman and considers a sex change would NEVER "bulk up" - he'd resent his masculinity and would definitely not try to increase it by training his muscles.

For the rest I'm sort of with you - I don't have moral issues with it, but there may be fair play issues. But then again, muscle/build is not all there is to being successful in sports: there's also dedication, talent, training. So in that sense a post-sex change man does not have a headstart per se.

Incidentally, is anyone here 'in the know' concerning male/female cellular makeup? Will hormone therapy really make a significant difference to body shape and size? Or will transgender females (formerly males) be naturally 'solid'? (likewise will 'changed' males be slender?)

But then you're assuming a man would undergo a sex change for such a shallow reason, and hence completely missing the point of it. People get sex changes because they feel deeply unhappy in their own bodies, because the gender they were born with feels inherently wrong to them, because they are men/women trapped in women's/men's bodies respectively. I doubt any of them would have competing in the Olympics foremost on their minds when they decided to undergo surgery/hormonal treatment. In fact, a man who feels he really was supposed to be a woman and considers a sex change would NEVER "bulk up" - he'd resent his masculinity and would definitely not try to increase it by training his muscles.
</font>[/QUOTE]I don't think I said that that would necessarily be the reason for the sex change. What I mean is, to get to the Olympic level, an athlete must have trained for years. Since in most countries, AFAIK, you have to be at least 18 to be able to consent to this operation (despite a recent ruling in Australia, where the psychological and hormonal treatments can begin at 12 and 16, respectively,) that means that men->women will have been training at a male level of high intensity for several years, so their body would have, presumably, bulked up like a man's (which I think is the primary physiological difference.) Now, I don't know whether the pre-operation hormonal therapy would reduce this, but it seems to me that the male->female would keep all of the bulk throughout the operation. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the motivation or anything, not that I'm really an expert, but the fairplay might be an issue.

I do agree that the psychological aspects are just as important, and if it's any consolation, most of the women I see are far more capable at that than their male counterparts. Most women play sheerly for the joy of the sport and competing, whereas guys tend to get caught up in the celebrity, sex-symbol status that some of them get.

Fair enough. Although I've read articles about this, my country is fairly advanced in sex change operations (in fact the foremost hospital doing them is connected to my university). And at least where I live, it sometimes happens that a young child already displays a deepseated need to belong to the opposite sex. They get counselling and most of them "grow over it" but some are extremely certain of being in the wrong body and for them it is actually possible to get hormonal treatments that postpone puberty (so their physique, in the case of males, will not be very developed or masculine). Then at an older age when they are considered to be capable of the decision, they have a full sex change. So in those cases at least there is no chance for the young boy's body to develop masculine characteristics before the surgery.

But in any case, sex changes are still quite rare and transgender people capable of competing in the Olypics even more so ;) so it really isn't such a big issue. :D

I shall look forward to seeing Evonne Gooliesgone in the mens tennis [img]smile.gif[/img]

"Even more so"? You don't think men that want to be women, in general, kick ass at, say, boxing?

Hm... maybe i should consider surgery.... i might have a shot at the gold in womens wrestling. If that doesn't work out, i could always prostitute myself and make loads of money. :D

[ 05-20-2004, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: johnny ]

I find it a bit disturbing that you actually consider these kind of things just to win or make money, johnny. Have you no shame? ;)

I find it a bit disturbing that he'd think he'd make a good female whore :/