I could be wrong, so I am happy to stand corrected, but is your comparison a case of apples with apples or apples with oranges?

How well I ask does NYC, a place where millions of inhabitants are packed in close proximity, with its racial tensions ("wrong suburb"), economic tensions (not the same as us), homeless rate and underground drug culture stack up against the relatively unsullied widespread beauty of a state like Oregon? I am sure that Portland has its "big city" issues too, but is the mix of the powderkeg and the history of gang culture as strong and prevailing? I don;t even think Portland stands up in a proper comparison to NYC let alone shifting that base to the lower crime rural heartland of the state.

I think where the tensions are highest the rules need to be stricter. I think if you put open slather on guns in NYC the effect wouldn't be that less people would pull them because they are worried who else has them - more people would have them to pull out and more people would be needlessly "blown away".

Let me guess, you still got a beef with me. That's why you're trying to start a riot.

First, I didn't say I was pro-gun control or anti-gun control: To tell you the truth, I could care less about the issue. I don't even have a gun or know anyone else who does.

Second: Whatever beef you have with me. I advise you to let it go. I've changed since then.

Now we return to our regular topic.

Davros:
That was the same exact thought Liberals had a few years back when Florida went open carry. Guess what? Their violent crime, guns in crime has gone down drastically.

And there is the problem. It's the well-armed fools that cause the tragedies. </font>[/QUOTE]This must be the reason NZ has a no gun clause!

I agree that Kentucky has one of the better CC programs. Is a partial open carry state, and also has a lower violent crime, gun related crime rate.

California has a good course for CC, but does not make it easy for Joe citizen to carry. One must have 1Mil in personal insurance once you have passed the course.

I somehow doubt that Yorick had you in mind when he was writing that particular post.

<font color=orange>Tennessee has a pretty good CC permit course as well. Involves both class work and range time. You have to prove you know the law and how to safely use your weapon. Personally, I'm against MOST gun control, but I don't have a problem with an instant background check and even required training in the safe use and storage of a firearm. </font>

MP5 is alot of heat. It's the choice of most CT units around the world for a reason.

You're really missing the more important target. Maybe I should have included a color: BLUE!

You'd be surprised how LITTLE police officers know or are able to handle the firearms they use. They are able to handle MP5s in certain situations, under circumstances I'd rather trust a fellow citizen than a police officer. I don't know how much or how little you've come to absorb the reality of living in America, but our cops are BAD! They're really bad, to the degree that the supreme court has decided they're not directly responsible for our safety nor are they required to protect us. The practical difference between a police officer with a gun and a citizen with a gun is paper thin.

Also, most automotive vehicles are far more dangerous than most firearms. If you've ever handled a pocket pistiol, you'll agree, beyond card table distances, the damn things can't shoot for shit.

As for 'assault weapons.' They're nothing more than semi-automatic rifles that look modern. The laws on the AWBAN of 94 are redundant, and clearly motivated to simply ban guns as a knee-jerk response, rather than an insight gathered from practical experiences and reliable statistics. The same can quite lucidly and logically be said for any gun control law passed in the US. Guy shoots a bunch of unarmed people, ban guns, to stop further maniacs from buying guns illegally. Then some maniac does it again, and what now? Ban something else? Impose regulations on daily life? Install surveillance cameras in homes? It's all tangentially related in the most unpleasant manner conceivable.

Understand that gun control can't get RID of firearms, all it does is make them illegal. That's like making anal sex illegal, concealed carry illegal (some think it's 'only fair' that the list of concealed carriers be released to the public) dope illegal, gay marriages, or most famously, alcohol.

The law CANNOT SAVE YOU! All it can do is define the parameters for which actions contravene the government's recognized authority. It's a question of enforceability, and enforcement. Gun Control is unenforceable in the US. With the presence of manufacturing technology, firearms themselves, and stockpiles of ammunition that last more than 50 years under adverse conditions, there's no way the people who want to do nefarious things with firearms are going to be stopped. New York City has some of the most Draconian gun control in the US, and it also has some of the highest gun crime rates... Kalifornistan is even worse... Ridiculously oppressive laws, in direct violation of the constitution (you can't get around the fact that gun control itself is illegal in the US, moral arguments aside, it's completely illegal, and thusly has no legitimacy) that have no effect in reducing crime. Much ado was made about the least used firearms in crime, and the ban has had no proveable effect whatsoever.

Actually, I think the small design of the MP5, its accuracy (for its barrel length) and reliability (not jamming) are the main reasons it has reached ubiquity. That, and the fact that HK has made so many varieties of the thing, including the MP5SD as well as the various front-grip handle, folding stock, attachable stock and other options.