OK - I DO owe Saz an apology, delivered forthwith right now on this spot. I apologize for accusing you of 'editing' my free speech on the board, all that happened was the thread is locked, which i guess i can understand, looking at it with a little bit more reason, and i also apologize for taking you to task about your patriotism as well. We are at war with the terrorists, not each other.

------------------
Unstinting Gaurdian of Children
Defender of Those Unable To
http://angelfire.lycos.com/rpg/stealthy/mummy.gif
To Err is Human To Forgive Divine, However Neither is U.S. Marine Corps Policy. Nuke'm til the damn camels glow.

JJ, you are one of the people I respect as a poster who has always been reasonable and fair. Don't you think it is a little unfair to lump all Arabs under the title "ragheads". Find and punish the perpetrators, by all means. But inciting racial hatred against a group of people who haven't even been convicted of this crime is wrong. Even accused murderers have their day in court in the United States and are innocent until proven guilty under the Constitution.

I know you feel emotional right now. I almost lost an aunt on Tuesday. I have friends still unaccounted for, in all likelihood buried under the rubble. I will do anything I can from my little corner of the world to help find and bring the people who committed this crime to justice - be they directly or indirectly linked with this attack. But what I will NOT do is incite violent responses towards innocent people. Because that's how these things all start - with hate. And I will not allow myself to fall into that cycle of hate - because it's a good feeling at first, but I will eat you up slowly from the inside. Don't listen to Sarevok, mate! Don't feed your unholy wrath! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

Peace!

------------------
http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/memnochsig.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif

[This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 09-17-2001).]

Thank you Memny, i take your words to heart. I do not indiscriminately hate, or encourage others to do so. That said, there are many here who live under the benefits of our free society only to inflict harm on it and the people. Fifth columnists, they were called back in the day it was communists we were trying to smoke out. The only thing that has changed here is that it is a different group of people attempting to use our system to bring it down. The hunt for them will undoubtably have collateral damage. My suggestion that they (as a group) now loudly proclaim their allegiance to the U S, and actively help in exposing those that are here only to undermine our culture, country and freedoms seems only reasonable. is it not?

------------------
Unstinting Gaurdian of Children
Defender of Those Unable To
http://angelfire.lycos.com/rpg/stealthy/mummy.gif
To Err is Human To Forgive Divine, However Neither is U.S. Marine Corps Policy. Nuke'm til the damn camels glow.

Dear J.J.,

Thanks! For what it's worth, I truly appreciate your deep feelings and your patriotism as well. You may not believe it, but mine is as deep. The issue with the racial thing has been dealt with, and is behind us.

I'm not sure who locked the thread, though...I know I didn't do it. Perhaps Dan did. I was surprised when I saw that there. It's probably all for the best, though.

Again, no hard feelings from me! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif And please do continue to post threads of encouragement for our forces and ideas about what to do to get at these heartless criminal killers. Everyone would be interested, I'm sure, as I doubt there are many countries unaffected by what occurred (it was the World Trade Center, after all, and many international citizens were killed as well.)

Thanks,



------------------
http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/saz.gif

I agree, but you need to separate the wheat from the chaff. Smoke them out by all means. Devote all resources possible to find and bring the perpetrators, planners and supporters of this act to justice. My concern - and call me a bleeding-heart liberal if you like http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif is that if even one innocent Muslim family dies either here in the US (as a result of racially incited violence) or in Afghanistan or wherever as a direct consequence of action that the US takes in revenge for the Tuesday attacks - and we know and allow this to happen - how does that make us better as a people? From the barbaric days of ancient Rome, to the dark lawlessness of the Middle Ages, to the so-called honorable duels of the 18th century - if all we can do is propagate a cycle of hatred and violence how far along as a species have we really come?

Who will go to the children of these innocents and say that their parents' deaths were the results of "collateral damage"?

I'm sorry JJ, none of the above is directed at you, your post didn't deserve such a strong response on my part. I just felt a need to vent. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif I'm not advocating that we do nothing. I'm just pointing out that it's so much easier to say collateral damage when the casualties are people unknown to us. As someone whose aunt almost became "collateral damage" on Tuesday, I will never throw that phrase around lightly again.

PS. I didn't lock the thread either - I haven't been here when the action's been hot and heavy. Saz has had the good fortune to pull that shift. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

------------------
http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/memnochsig.gif http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/hero2.gif

[This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 09-19-2001).]