[img]graemlins/1disgust.gif[/img]

Hmm. Too old? I think not.
Age is not a valid reason for me, since along with the Bard's Tale trilogy, this 'old' SSI engine basically helped define my obsession with RPG's.
The journal aspect of those games in particular was a brilliant novelty and gave them that 'interactive novel' sensation. Respect where its deserved mate, I think, as they were quite influential for their time!
Three cheers for old-school SSI RPGness! [img]graemlins/cheers.gif[/img]

But yeah, Menzo was great too - although that was a part of the next generation of first person AD&D games which came later.
It was made after Strahd's Posession, which atmospherically, is probably my pick of the three (the other is Stone Prophet) although I did play Menzo before the both of them! It would have to be the first occurence in CRPG history where the legendary Drizzt Do'Urden can join the party! :D

[ 10-02-2003, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: CerebroDragon ]

Depends on what you're into. IMHO those games did not give me a good RPG experience and never could. When they evolved into first person then we were getting somewhere. When attemting combat in those games I felt like I was playing strategic chess instead of an RPG.

Nah, they were RPG's alright mate and they DID give good RPG experiences.

At least in the old school sense, with traditional dungeon crawls, emphasis on Combat, map making, puzzles and the AD&D party dynamics. Perhaps they were limited interaction wise compared to the Ultima's and the BG series, but that is evidence on how far RPG's have come - the old school stuff shall remain RPGs by classical definition. The little 3d window view by the way is also first person in the old goldbox stuff, but I take your point. Exploring a world in complete first person does help to make it all the more immersive. (Ultima Underworld being my prime example of this!)

Strategic Chess? Nice analogy which I think is befitting in describing any turn based combat system quite common in RPG's even today. Wizardy 8 even the horribly misnomered Ruins of Myth Drannor. (PoRII?) feature a similar feel to combat. There are obvious subtle differences of course. But I don't see how this detracts from an RPG experience nor how strategising in a methodical chess like fashion can be considered 'un-rpglike'. It all goes back to one's own personal definintions I guess, aswell as the games we played as a kid.

We'll agree to disagree then, eh? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Incidentally,
Perhaps someone has already made a NWN module for the Dragonlance fans out there? Any takers for remaking any of the Dragonlancee goldbox series for NWN? That I'd like to see! :D

[ 10-09-2003, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: CerebroDragon ]

This is it. Turn based does not translate well in CRPG's. Real time is the most popular (and most favoured) format for combat systems, just look at the BG (or any IE game) and NWN's series. The D&D preferred system is real time. With a turn-based system you have something like a chess game, and with these older SSI's they had no animations for combat, spells etc. like they do now, so I guess it was the only thing they could do at the time.

Well an RPG is ideally a real-time life you are playing. It does not consist of pauses and initiative waiting, you think quick on your feet in the face of danger and the pace is usually quite fast. This is what sells RPG's, the sense of adventure, danger, haste. Unfortunately in PNP we can only play RPG's by breaking them down into systems & rules and turns. In the D&D DM guides dm's were always advised to never get bogged down by rules and always "keep the pace going" so to speak.
The reason why BG was so popular with non-D&D fans is because the creators did just what the DM guide advised. They developed one of the first working D&D real-time systems that would allow almost anyone (newcomers included) to play the game freely and see it all happen before their eyes without pausing every round to decide action. The pause feature was there if you needed it but otherwise events would transpire, your character would keep on fighting/walking/standing and the game world went on. It was almost like a movie but you're in it and that for those of us who have only imagined up 'till now, was priceless :D .

Yep, no worries [img]smile.gif[/img] . In fact, the newest D&D game out, ToEE is only turn-based and with the graphics, engine and animations of this day and age, works quite well from what I hear so perhaps you might like it.

There is a massive project going on known as "The DLA", a conversion of NWN's to Dragonlance, it should be almost finished by December. I've been suggesting some music over there at the forums.

[ 10-09-2003, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: SpiritWarrior ]

The Dragonlance movie is happening [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]<font color='white'> Whoa! Are you serious? Have the confirmed a DL movie finally? All I have heard is speculation. </font>

Just a personal point of view.....

The original DragonLance was one of the BEST settings as it was the stereotypical fantasy setting where dragons were really scary and there was a sense of balance in the level of characters.

Then someone somewhere decided to move the timeline forward which really made the world (Krynn) fall apart. Personally, I believed they should have just left the world as it was after the War of the Lance instead of pushing the ages... Oh not to mention total milking of the ALL the original heroes, esp Raistlin!

After the original series of books, I moved worlds...