True, cause not all evil is 100% evil.

A Evil Knight might Slaughter countless lives and not even blink but he refuses to kill children.

An Neutral Evil Thief, might defend a cause to the death even if there is no money involved.

and not all Good is 100% good

A Chaotic good mage sees a fire raging in the Horison, there is a druid protecting his grove, If the mage burns down the grove it will save 100000 lives but the druid refuses to leave. So the mage renders the Druid Uncontius but the druid reisist. The mage is forced to kill the druid and burns down the grove.

etc etc...

the 2ed Vilains source book (The blue covered one with no pic), shows how to give gray area to all aliments.

I'd like to know why you think that not having a use for laws would prevent society from changing?
I think laws CAN restrict change,but in any case change IS inevitable,and as human beings,to think we can control the outcome is to be blind to forces other than ourselves.
.....But on the matter of good/evil:
A west african society called the 'Fang',Told early missionaries,"We have two hearts,good ,and bad." They felt they could not eradicate evil in the world.This incapacity means they have to celebrate,and so in their society good and bad walk together.
I think being tribal people,who dont rely on intellect as mutch as the western world,they see the huge grey area that we are as human beings,and dont have room for black/white type mental constructs.
-My 2 cents

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"I can carry no more! ,I must drop what you gave me upon the ground."

Most laws would be considered Lawful Neutral, Perfect Juges(by the law) are Juges that are Lawful Neutral. Basic society is Lawful Good, most of us follow the laws and basicly try to do our best to find life, happiness etc etc.

Solgiers fall under Lawful Neutral when in the army, so is the police since then have to follow law and country to the letter.(As civilians there what ever aliment, Lawful good, Neutral Good).

There is rare things as true evil, A serial Killer would fall as Chaotic Evil, A traitor (a cop who accepts a bribe etc) would be Neutral Evil, Lawful Evil would be a coporate Manager(This is just an example, I don't want any evil corporate managers breathing down my neck! LOL) that twist the laws so he have more money, influance. Evil is redimable and not countinus,

Neutral Good falls when you are a good Samaritain: You see a child walk on the freeway, the Law sais your not supposed to walk on the freeway to save the child, But you break the law in the name of the greater good.

Chaotic Good is best described as freedom fighters, They will do what it takes for good to triumph, If Killing a Neutral Evil dictator is the only way, Then by god that dictator will fall... Chaotic Good caracter can easly fall Neutral Evil if they don't watch there actions.

Chaotic Neutral: Are happy go luckly, They don't belive in Law or Good or Evil per say. A Drifter that Muggles drugs one day, then gambles it all away on a card game just to go drifting again and works in a church for awhile... They have no paterns.

True Neutral: I would say almost Impossible outside nature (Maybe Moderated Greenpeace activist, The Extreamist tends to be like Shadow Druids), There cannot be a side more powerful than the other, Good, Evil Chaos, Law must all be equal if they are to survive. If there is a Benelovent kindom then an equali Evil empire must exist. If Goodness ruled the world how would your reconise it if there isn't evilness to compare it too. Chaos is needed if Laws are to evolve into better laws etc etc...

That was hillarious. Well spoken Yorick.



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Tremble and despair, for I am power! All here are now judged, and are found wanting.

How about the 10th alignment - Hungry? (This was featured in the "Castle Greyhawk" module for AD&D) You could just eat everything and have done with it ("Stop chewing my leg" says Jaheira", "Why are you looking at me like that" says plump Jan Jansen with turnips on the side)

The idea of good and bad are completly rediculace and the idea that a serial killer is chaotic evil is just as much so. A killer especialy serial killers always have a reason for killing maybe it was a messed up childhood where a bully with a buzz cut picked on them so they like to kill anyone thats taller then them with a buzz cut that looks at them the wrong way the reason they do this is because they think they are balancing the system the serial killer is just giving back the punishment he recived thus creating order/law making him lawful alingment. another exsample of good/evil is our good pal the mage Jon iranecus he only did what he did for revenge, he was wronged so he needs to carry out certain deeds to ballance out the pain he suffered to the rest of the world so hes not alone. And in the case of the person who wants absolute power over everyone dispite what all of the people around him feel isnt evil as you may think, in his mind odds are he only is trying to bring order to the world in the means he thinks best. Yes, i am aware how stupid all this sounds its just my point to bring out that the ultimate objective of the universe is to bring balance (order) to chaos and by bringing balance it makes room for choas again, its a lovely paradox i know, this is called the Tao in the Taoist Philosophy which everyone would know from the common symbol of the Yin-Yang that circle with the a dot on each side. but i digress, my sympathy to anyone who actualy read all this.....

Yeah, intent is everything and there is mutch to be understood and forgiven.

I agree w/ white heron
same with guns/bow ,crossbows swords -also
putting a bann on selling or weapons not every one isa goody two shoes.

Strahd, this action contains no good if the definition of good is:

Putting aside ones own agenda for the benefit of others

and evil as being:

Putting aside others benefit for ones own agenda.

You presented the scenario of someone committing "the lesser of two evils".
Taking a life is by definition evil. Thus it would be impossible for any character to complete Baldurs Gate as a truly good character.

The Alignments are as Accord stated roleplay guides that are reminiscent of dominant moral codes within an individual, but hardly representative of them.


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"Check the sustain on this one ... aaaaaaaa, I mean you could go out for a bite and there'd still be aaaaaaaaa"

"Can I touch it?"
"No. It can't be played"
"Can I look at it?
"No we've seen enough of that one....."
http://www.ssanimation.com/site/anim...bj/guitar2.gif

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 04-01-2001).]

I wan't to think that there's at least a few "Ultimate truths" that shall be obeyed by all people all over the world.

Killing another living creature is wrong/evil.

Hurting another living creature is wrong/evil.

Not helping another living creature in need of help is wrong/evil.

Depressing another living creature is wrong/evil

To claim yourself of more worth then another living creature is wrong/evil

To own is wrong/evil

I want to believe that these rules are more then something we've found out ourself, i want to believe there's a "higher" force which've given us these
ideas. But I'm not sure...

Maybe i will speculate more later