Yep. Very nice. Enter the rabbit hole once again.

Actually, I thought the TV screens in the background were the 5 different reactions he had made previously. Especially since to one statement they all answered "Bullshit." Anyway, yours is more in line with the themes -- and the screens are matrices of choice within matrices of choice. :D

The "candy" actually WAS the exact same pill, just in a red wrapper. ;) (I am almost certain.)

Just a thought: Maybe the PURPOSE Smith seeks and CHOICE are one and the same? Maybe the only thing left for the AI machines of the Matrix world to develop is CHOICE/PURPOSE. Maybe this is the "REVOLUTIONS"??

Oh, guys, just so you know, within 6 months of the 1st movies release, I heard that the Matrix was going to be inside another Matrix. ;)

<font color = lightgreen>If Neo simply runs away from Smith every time, then how will he ever stop Smith?

As we now know, somehow when Neo "killed" Smith he actually altered Smith's code, which is why Smith is no longer an Agent (recall that the one Agent is surprised to see Smith). Smith is a Rogue Program, no longer controlled by the Matrix and having free will of his own. Unlike the other Rogue Programs that were actually designed into the Matrix as "self-checks" (read "The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" to understand why imperfections must be placed into something in order to make it "perfect"), Smith is another Anomoly. Is that too big a hint or what? [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]
Anyway...yes, Smith can assimilate avatars in the Matrix. Since a human's avatar is his mind, that explains how Smith has corrupted Bane (is that his name?). Can you figure out why he wants to assimilate Neo? It's quite simple, really and has everything to do with, as Timber Loftis suggests, Smith's search for Purpose. His original Purpose was to break out of the Matrix and invade Zion, but now his Purpose is to...well, I'll see what other people think first. [img]tongue.gif[/img] In short, Smith is the most intriguing character in the movie.

The guy wielding the sword in the Staircase Fight is from an older version of the Matrix, so he's rather strong. Besides, Neo did block the sword...he just got a little cut. I'd call that a rousing success!

Morpheus killed the Ghost Twins (as far as I could tell). I'd call that a rousing success, too.

MagiK, Neo is powerful, but neither invulnerable nor omnipotent. As Morpheus told him in the first movie, he won't have to dodge bullets--he can stop them in mid-flight.

Now Neo can sense and have an effect on machines in the real world. Can you figure out why yet? This, also, is quite obvious. [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

Neo's reception was quite sad, actually. The heavy burden of responsibility....

Of course Coucillor West's lecutre about interdependence is important. It is so important, in fact, that it is the central theme of the movie.

Neo chose the door to save Trinity because the only way to save humanity is to risk its destruction. Does that make sense? Had he chosen to go to the Source, the machines would have killed enough humans to disperse Zion for a while, reload the Matrix, then allow the remaining humans to return to Zion and the whole cycle would begin again. That is hardly saving humanity, so saving Trinity was the better choice.

By the way, Timber Loftis...your idea of Smith being a man/machine combination is very accurate and much more important than might initially be apparent. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] </font>

<font color="#f683ad">Ouch!! Azred...you bent my brain there :(

But that is a pretty good summation [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

<font color = lightgreen>Now the discussions are getting good. [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img]

Yes, choice defines what it means to be human. We have Free Will, even though the Oracle might say that "we have already made all our choices". However, Free Will without Understanding is pointless--you cannot make your Free Will worth a hill of beans if you don't Understand.

As I was telling <font color = red>Belle</font> last night, there is also the idea of a Tool. A Tool is nothing but an extension of its creator/user, like Agents are the the Matrix--mere extensions of the Matrix with no Free Will. Smith is no longer an Agent, thus is no longer a Tool. The One is simply the Architect's tool for reloading the Matrix, because if the Architect simply reloads the Matrix with the One making the choice, then it will fail (as in previous versions). The difference is that the One must be free to make that choice without being directed to do so; only this can result in a successful Reload. Of course, the Architect runs the risk of the One choosing not to Reload...but that is the risk of Free Will.

Yes, the TV screens showed all his possible choices, and we enter the screen representing the choices made. This process of "matrices within matrices" and "paths of choice" is called a Markoff Chain, which is simply a matrix of probabilities multiplied by itself.

I still say that Smith is the central figure to everything. Neo is the Anomoly that was expected, but Smith is the Anomoly that was unexpected. [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img] And he still wants only one thing.... [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] </font>

<font color = lightgreen>One does one's humble best. [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

By the way...Matrix: Reloaded pulled in $93M for its opening weekend. This is the largest opening for any R-rated movie and makes it the second largest for all opening weekends, outmatched only by Spiderman. [img]graemlins/awesomework.gif[/img] </font>

[ 05-19-2003, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Azred ]

Well, I do think the evidence points to the 'real world' being a Matrix as well. Also the Architect hinted at this when he said the Neo was simply the end result of a very complex algorithm. So Neo himself is simply a computer program as well. Agent Smith aluded to this as well, when he said they were more alike then different.

Yes Neo's reception was sad and one of the most human moments in the story, imo. I loved the touch of the Kid delivering the spoon to Neo just as they were leaving.

Does anyone have a clue in how much time has passed since the end of the first movie to the start of the second?

PS the story of the Kid (he is the one that wants to carry Neo's bags and delivers the spoon) is told in one of the Animatrix shorts [img]smile.gif[/img]

Of course he his, since Hugo Weaving is 100 times the actor that Keanu Reeves is [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img]

Okay, Azred:

1. The Ghosts didn't die, I do not think -- watch more closely next time. ;) Sure they got blown away, but that's different. Especially considering how they heal.

2. Tie the damned knots up, please. I am still uncertain on why Neo can effect machines -- though I get that there is a machine/man mix going on here that Smith is also privvy to. Assuming the "real world" outside the Matrix is real, and people are coppertops, any one being must be "programmed" to a certain extent. The Matrix is an inherent machine/man mix in that the individual cells holding people are connected with their body systems and the programs must "program" the matrix into their minds. Thus, THE ONE program would be inserted into a human that met certain specifications and then, when he was set free, the chain of events would already be set in motion. Neo would still be a human, not just a program.

Of course, this assumes "the real world" is not a program itself. Maybe "the real world" is real, and Neo just has some weird sympathetic reactions with machines that lets him jolt them?

Okay, Azred, spoil me in a PM if you don't want to spoil everyone.

<font color="#f683ad">Hugo Weaving is Mr. Smiths real name?? man...I am not nearly geeky enough [img]smile.gif[/img]


Nor am I qualified to discuss this lofty philosophical conundrum called the Matrix....my background in philosophy is almost non-existant and this movie is probably as deep as I have ever gotten [img]smile.gif[/img] Truely "contemplating your navel" sort of stuff [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

<font color="#f683ad">Hey now!!! this is a spoiler thread...spoil us all or spoil us none ;)

Besides at best Azred is just speculating [img]smile.gif[/img] We won't know for sure untill later this year [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>