Hmm - I guess you're right - I read something about doing the things the long way, and I misunderstood it as the longest way I could imagine. I skipped the rest save the conclusion - Sorry.

And your cheat is not nearly as 'time consuming' as running through the game several times to get the highest stats [img]smile.gif[/img] Otherwise it wouldn't be much of a cheat anyway ;)

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Insane

isn't stats all maxed kinda like cheating, and makes them like a GOD?
Woah

Yup.

We all cheat a little here and there - both in games and in real life. Isn't it some sort of cheating just to read the info on this site?
If you should not cheat at all, you had to start the game without knowing anything about the plot in the game. But then again, the first 'pit' is the reroll button, right in front of you, and immediately you will find out how to 'use' of it [img]smile.gif[/img]

Is it cheating to do something that makes you powerfull?
Is it cheating to make use of what you know about the game mechanics?
Is it cheating to make use of features in the game, that was implemented on purpose by the designers?
Is it cheating to make use of some sort of powerful spells?
Is it cheating to start a new game and make use of what you found out from previous games?

I will not answer these questions, because I think people got their rights to make their own and personal answers. To cheat or not to cheat is not as 'black or white' as it seems to be. It is a gray zone, where you are allowed to do what you think is the best for you, and your way of playing the game.

One question I will answer is:
Is it cheating to use cheat codes and/or an editor?
MY answer is YES

But if you have played the game so many times, that you feel that you know every byte of it, then you can extend your fun, by using such stuff. Maybe you'll end up making your own mod, some day ;)

On the other hand: If you start using cheat codes and editors from day 1, I do not think that BG1 will last very long, before it gets boring. I would feel sory for you, but it is your decision, what you do on your own PC.

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Insane

Yeah I suppose that I do cheat in IWD all the time.
Just asking, didn't mean to offend anyone.
Sorry
Maybe I should try this one sometime to see if it works, as the game always beats me, my characters are too weak.

[ 04-05-2003, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Dragonshadow ]

InsaneBane:
"Is it cheating to do something that makes you powerfull?
Is it cheating to make use of what you know about the game mechanics?
Is it cheating to make use of features in the game, that was implemented on purpose by the designers?
Is it cheating to make use of some sort of powerful spells?
Is it cheating to start a new game and make use of what you found out from previous games?"

The questions you're asking make it seem like you view cheating as some sort of existential, unnameable force. Don't be silly. Cheating in-game can be very clearly defined. Generally speaking, bug abuse and use of third-party programs to gain advantages is cheating. Not to be confused with modding, which changes the game for either difficulty and/or story purposes.

Mods: BG2's Improved (Insert Monster Here), BG2's NPC mods, BG1's DSotSC
Cheats: Setting stats to 25, abusing multi's import/export to duplicate items

The real question you were trying to answer, however, was whether cheating was wrong. Ignoring EULA and TOS legalities, is it?

In single player games, not at all. It can get boring and you don't really develop the skill you would otherwise, but it's harmless.

In multiplayer games, cheating can be extaordinarily damaging. The cheater must be very careful not to corrupt a legitimate gaming environment, but this is usually too much to ask for. People want to play, and they have no incentive to watch out for any negative externalities they may cause. That's putting it lightly. Cheating in multiplayer is a bad idea.

In regard to this thread, does cheating matter? I'm with you. It's nothing to worry about.

-Lem

Nothing new: This is YOUR definition ;)
If you read my entire post you would have noticed that I agree on the 3rd party SW part too.
I can ask a some new questions then: What is a bug? Is the possibility to kill Drizzt a bug or not a bug (I know both arguments has been stated time and time again).
Is it cheating to reroll over and over again to get very high stats? (some say yes, some say no).
Is it cheating to go to a walkthrough-site and read all about how to find the RoW and other well hidden treasures? (some say yes others say no).
And there could be asked many more questions concerning the gray zone, where it is wildly discussed if a given action is cheating or not.

Is it also cheating to import a character several times to read the tomes several times to get 25s all over the board?
Is it cheating to import a character into a new game?

NO I DID NOT!!! Ok now I am sure: You did NOT read the entire post:

In other words: I couldn't care less if someone is cheating or not.

Agreed!

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Insane

For a post that started with my requesting some info, we have most certainly strayed from the topic. If you really want to get into a discussion about the philosphical or moral implications of cheating and/or what is cheating you could easily post in general discussion. That at least would take this topic, which is effectively irrelevent to a location where definitive relevence is not a concern.

"What is a bug?"

http://www.m-w.com

"NO I DID NOT!!!"

Sure you did. You said it doesn't matter because "grey areas" exist and to each his own. I said cheating is quite sharply defined and told you how.

-Lem

You are quite funny, aren't you ;) . But the question is still open and is still discussed in this forum.

I will still give the same answer. I was questioning which actions was cheating and which actions was not cheating, not if it is wrong to cheat or not. I even wrote the following lines in my post to back this up:


On the other hand: If you start using cheat codes and editors from day 1, I do not think that BG1 will last very long, before it gets boring. I would feel sorry for you, but it is your decision, what you do on your own PC.


Feeling sorry for someone is not the same as to condemn someone by saying that their actions are 'wrong'.

Yes - but it is still YOUR definition. We all got our own definition of what is cheating and what is not in this game. It is the main reason why this topic is still discussed years after the release.

What I am talking about here is the gray zone of cheats in this game. On the other hand there are some actions where most of the players agree:

Most players agree that it is cheating to use an editor and use CLUA codes.
Most players agree that it is NOT cheating to use fireballs all the time and make heavy use of missile weapons.

But is it cheating to sell and buy wands to an NPC to recharge it? Is this a bug in the game or is it something implemented by purpose by the programmers? Some says it is a bug some says it is not. Some uses it all the time, others do not use it because they think it is cheating. My conclusion: Do what you think is best for YOU, but be careful not to spoil the game for your own sake.

I normally hate to go into arguments like this, but something in your post worked like a red rag to a bull on me.

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Insane

BTW: Have you by any chance played DII on Bnet?