Sazerac,

Hey, we should research this further. Now, how did you know this was a "kick"? Can you describe it for us? I can only tell that my elf does a punch when I hear the "thwack" noise...but you can you tell its a kick? I'm very curious about this..did they occur simoutaneously, or one right after the other like double strike? I don't recall this happening to me...but I will check again this evening.

I think you may have the answer, being level 16 or a higher level. Most of the cool traits and such cannot be learned until you are a higher level, like Enlightenment and others. Hmm...

As you may have seen from my character descriptions, my fighters rarely got past the 12th or 13th level, since I switched classes like no tomorrow, to max out spells and abilites. I have to go back and check, but I do believe my elf was a 20th level assassin when she took up the Zenmaster robes. I don't remember her kicking, but let us know how you see or hear the kick then I can verify.

There might be something were all missing here? DWB? Anyone?

I thought it would be appropriate to see a kung fu fighter with 2nd strike do two attacks, did you have 2nd strike as well?

Very interesting, thanks for the thread Lily!

Scronan

there are less typos when I'm less busy.

My Whiskah Monk was level 14 with Kung Fu at level 12 and he was getting two attacks periodically. He wore only a robe. Seems I noticed that each party member's attack is described in the text banner as to type of strike and damage done. Am I misremembering? Don't have the game up right now, am playing *gasp* Ultima Ascension, and outside of the many *BUGS* that are way more copious than in WizWar, it's a great game!
*please, no rotten eggs or tomatoes tossed in my general direction, thenk yew*

Dear Scronan,

It says "kick" in the small textbox below the view screen, and it usually (but not always) occurs on the second attack. I think it would have been a great idea to give us the choice of punching or kicking. Wizardry VII (Dark Savant) did this with the Ninja and Monk characters; generally, if they punched first, they kicked second, or vice-versa. In Wizardry, kicking always did 1.5x to 2x damage of punching.

I'm only using 4 characters this round, and I've changed roles ridiculously frequently, but I finally have them all where I want them to be (except for Zenmaster and Valkyrie which I haven't gotten yet). I've only just made it to Brimloch Roon and done the 1st Warriors and Rogues guild quests yet, and so far I have a 19th level Barbarian (who was previously a Samurai, Paladin, and Warrior), a 17th level Ninja (who was previously a Monk, Warlock, and Wizard, and who is going to become my Zenmaster), a 18th level Assassin (who was previously a Bard and a Rogue), and an 18th level Samurai (who was previously a Warlock and a Priest, and who is going to become my Valkyrie). I haven't gotten brave enough to try the single character option; maybe next play through.

And yes, all my characters have 2nd strike. I don't know if that matters or not, though.

P.S. How do you get Enlightenment? Is it a Zenmaster trait?

Sazerac

Hey Sazerac,

Enlightenment is a Zenmaster trait you can learn in the Bushi guild at Leve 14 and higher. It makes all stats go up by 2, which is really cool. You can enchant weapons even more, but be prepared to pay millions...gold cheat please!

To follow up on our thread, I took my characters, 5 level 13 Zenmasters and a level 11 Valk and I killed Oakenmir to get the experience. Mind you, all of them have level 12 Kung Fu and 2nd Strike. I then went out and fought a bunch of enemies hand to hand. I saw no kicks of any kind, and only one attack at a time. And these were level 21 Zenmasters with a bad attitude!

I also checked my Elf Vampire, she had been a level 21 Assassin and I never saw her kick. I wonder, is this a Ninja and Monk only thing? I know the Zenmaster is supposed to be "El Badasse" with the hand to hand, but is there something else you did?

But, I have some proof that the kicks are real, only that I was on the receiving end. I went back and reset the adventures, and made some level 1 idiots and gave them all my super power armor. When the Lizard guy came up asking for Gareth, I decided to attack him. he couldn't hit a level 1 ratling with 32 armor class, could he? Yup!

I saw him attack, and although the graphic showed him chop me, it said

"Lizard Dude Crane Kicks you for 32 damage"

The green scaly Bruce Lee wanna be dropped two of my characters with his fancy crane kicks, and then slapped another silly with a punch (for a lot less damage) before he dissappeared. Is this what you saw Sazerac, a "crane Kick"?

I remember someone saying you could kick way back when the game first came out, and I dont think he was level 16, but had a ninja with a kung fu of 7 or so. I still to this day, have not seen a Crane Kick of any kind, nor any kicks.

Does it have a different noise? You know, I really want to get to the bottom of this, is it class related, etc?

Anyway, the Lizard guys punch attack had the same term as my characters punches, so I'm glad I found some info, but now I'm even more confused.

Help anyone?

Scronan

ok here is all i know, i have an character with level 12 kung fu, and no second weapon skill and he attacks twice, one of which was a "kick"(text even said so), and it did 40 pts of damage, with an 18 str. I did not believe this one myself at first cause i was talking to someone else when it happened, and i killed a shark with one mouse click, which had never happened before, so i looked at the text, and it said that i took a swing, and then the same character took a kick at the shark so the only thing you need is 12 kung fu.

Sarcomere

Here is some more data:
A solo female gourk who was samurai turned warlock. At level 3 she has strength 24, dex 14, agil 21;
kung fu 2, 2nd weapon 6, gallantry 6, prowess 3 and a lot of other skills and traits that I think are irrelevant. Against simple monsters she repeatedly has 2 attacks per round, like worgur mongrels. Against higher level creatures like ratling sneeks I haven't seen a second attack yet.
Note that she is wearing dragon armor and a shield (the shroud), but is not overweighed.
Often her first attack is a swing and the second a kick, but I've also seen two swings or kicks. I think it's more or less random, and I never noticed a damage difference either way.

Hi again,

hmm, I think you might be on to something, but I know its just more than 12 kung fu. My characters all have 14 kung fu and still no dice.

Very good bit about not needing second strike! makes me wonder, since one of my Zenmasters holds a main gauche, where she punches then stabs with the weapon. Could you punch, kick then attack with the 2nd weapon???

I still am not sure why this works. I am wondering if switching classes a lot is what causes this, since my characters have. Another thing, I've never created a Monk! I figured it took to long.

My plan is thus:

I am going to start the game with one Zenmaster (level 1, complete newbie), Monk, Ninja and Assassin (created first with my good characters then restore settings)..and have them fight bare handed the entire game.

I'll get to the bottom of this mystery. I tried posting to the main WW forums, and not surprising the people there were about as helpful as impotence.

Anyone else, thoughts, hints? Davros, Saz, et al, lets get to the @#$#$ bottom of this little mystery!!!!!!!!!!!

Me thinks we should write our own WW strategy guide, its obvious this forum knows more about the game than most!

Kudos

Scronan

it is very stange in deed.my 37 level fully maxed out stats assassin with level 9 kung-fu and level 6 second weapon
in the sunkin city would punch and follow up with a kick now im in cets pyramid im at level 40 full stats level 13 kung-fu and level 9 second weapon and he only punches now.(ive beefed up assassin blade and gave it to my assassin ,so now he has two strikes again)only thing i can think of is there must be some calculation that compares my stats aghanst the monsters im playing and i havent reached the stats i need to have a second strike in cets pyramid...ill let you know if as i rise in levels if it returns