Yeah, but whats the point in being a Swashbuckler if not for the thieving skills? That, and a better AC, are really what make it a valid choice instead of a Fighter/Thief. I'm currently playing an Elf Fighter/Thief, and though I have the ability to wear armor heavier than studded leather, I don't, because it cancels out my thieving abilities. If I wanted to be a straight tank, I'd be a fighter or something. Being able to Hide in Shadows might not be as useful for the Swashbuckler because they don't backstab, but what about detecting traps and pickpocketing and such? And Stealth is extremely useful even if you aren't backstabbing...its like instantly making yourself invisible. The only advantage I see in having a Plate-Mail wearing Swashbuckler would be the unbelievable AC...

Unbeleiveable AC, thac0, saves, at high levels, the swashbuckler DEYSTROYS the fighter, imo. I've solo'd both, and the swashbuckler was much stronger than the figher in combat - and even if you do need to sneak around to scout (i doubt it, you can cut up anything in your path easy) then you take off said platemail, see what's ahead, go back, put it back on, and run in screaming.

These comparisons fail to take into consideration the difficulty level. If you play on Core and below then Swashie could be a better choice. But on Insane where you HAVE to take some damage now and then (especially since Swashie cannot backstab and finish the fights faster) F/T is a much better choice. One is backstab and the other is certain HLA that takes away 40% of physical damage.

This is similar to that comparison of Haer'Dalis and Korgan. Sure, Korgan is a great fighter, but when he has to take a couple of hits on insane - for example that he has to fight the 6 golems in Ust Natha for the eggs of the dragon, he is toast. And Haer takes 0 damage. (Stoneskin, PFMW, ...) :D

i play on insane, and in my experiance, my swash was much stronger by the end. If you wish to dis-agree, be my guest, but i still think the swashbuckler is better.