Re: 1e Bard
 

Bards can use club, dagger, dart, javelin, sling, scimitar, spear, sword (bastard, long, or short), and staff and wear leather or magical chain but cannot use shields. (Pretty restrictive, actually.)

They could specialize in a weapon and maybe even double-specialize while they are fighters, though, to raise their attacking speed and damage...

THAC0 for a 39th level fighter in 1e would be 4 compared to 14 for a bard (staying at the THAC0 of a 7th level fighter), or considerably better. In fact, THAC0 may be the biggest weakness for the bard - only a maximum-level assassin (also THAC0 14) is as bad (but specialization would help).

As for rangers, 1e rangers definitely are the way to go :) (Specialization, double specialization, druid spells, magic-user spells, and lots of damage on most humanoids is great!)

Re: 1e Bard
 

Hmm, does this mean that manikus started off as a power gamer? :D

The answer, of course, is no. manikus, or so I have heard became a ranger all those years ago because of some fellow named "Strider". :ninjas:

Re: 1e Bard
 

The ninja? :D

Rangers also started off with up to 16 hp + CON bonuses (x 2?) - good for 1st-level insurance, I say. :D

Re: 1e Bard
 

You could end up with a 1st level ranger with 20 hp. :D manikus, I believe, started with 12 or 13. Ah, those were the days - you did a whole gaming session and if the DM was in a good mood you might go up a level. :) Versus today's computer versions and if you're not leveling every 30 to 60 minutes you are doing something wrong.

Um, the rumors about manikus going off to become a ninja are completely untrue - he went off to become a jedi. :D:D:D

Re: 1e Bard
 

Games have undergone "level inflation," partially because of the influence of Japanese CRPGs, where level 76 (or whatever) was quite common (as were exceeding amounts of HP).

Jedi, ninja, same thing, different clothes :D

Re: 1e Bard
 

World of Warcraft certainly bears this out with the top levels being 80 or so.

I think a big part of the difference is between in-person and computer RPGs. Let's be honest, there isn't a lot of role playing going on in most commercial RPGs - they are mostly about killing things.

Re: 1e Bard
 

That's for sure!

Another thing about level inflation - easy lower levels are another element (beginning with Dragon Quest I, where you needed to kill but 7 slimes or so to go to level 2).

Level 2 was a huge thing in AD&D.

Re: 1e Bard
 

I remember the first time I played a cleric - getting that first spell was huge! :)

Re: 1e Bard
 

Make them a split class ala the Ninja form OA. The player creating a Bard must qualify(attribute-wise and racially) for one of the 'primary' classes(Fighter, Thief, Druid, or Magic-user/illusionist) as well as for the Bard class(which should have pretty high req's for Wisdom, Dex and Charisma). Bards get the HD and Save throws of their 'primary' class as well as the combat ability/to hit tables of that class. In addition to their 'Legend Lore' skill they should have teh ability to perform magical songs in combat. In early levels they might simply give moral bonuses/cure fear etc. but later on may be able to cast 'sleep' or charm monster effects while playing and singing(bonus for using an instrument as well as their voice).

Re: 1e Bard
 

I don't really want to make a 3e bard, not for the 1e game idea at least. :)

The PHB is pretty specific that bards do not gain any magical ability until after they've put in their time as a fighter and a thief.

Some time after version 1.0 of DC is out, I think it would be pretty cool to start working on a 3e or 4e version, but they are too different to pull of right now.