My dear friends and enemies alike, and everyone in between,

With great interest I have followed the debate which has enrolled itself from minor interest, to a great and vivid debate concerning the integration of the Kobold (Koboldus Minimus) into the society as we know it. Because it is the duty of any citizin or inhabitant of Faerun to state his or hers opinion concerning this matter, I believe that my opinion is needed to conclude this matter as quickly as possible.

And this matter needs to be concluded quickly, my friends, that is something that we must all agree about. It is for a major reason that I urge you to leave your babbling and chit-chatting for what it is, and conclude this debate with valid and good arguments, because it is truly a matter of life and death that we are facing.
Not only is it important to realise that we are discussing whether or not killing kobolds is justifyable, but also that we are discussing whether kobolds should be integrated in our society and, most importantly, what to do about the other subraces we know off. These include the well known orcs, goblins, and ogres, but also the ogrillons, the xvarts and the hobgoblins. These creatures are also endangered, and this debate can and may be seen as the direct cause for the threat to their lives.

To delve deeper into this matter I have told you about, I need to give you, my friends, an example. Picture yourself, or anyone you please, as a peasant. You've heard from relatives, from merchants or from a random somebody that there is a debate going on in Baldur's Gate concerning the integration of kobolds in society. You get frightened, that is a logical reaction. You remember your great-uncle Willy being killed by a kobold (or to be more truthful: he tripped over a root, and fell in a dead kobolds arrow. The rusty arrow didn't kill him but instead gave him infections which proved fatal to the, already 90 year old man). So what do you do? Nothing? But you're frightened.. frightened that kobolds might one day be your new neighbours. So you grab your pitch-fork, gather some farmer friends, and start a campaign to drive Kobolds (and other supposedly evil subraces) out of the region.

This story indicates my point fairly well, I believe. I can understand that you think that not everyone thinks like a farmer; I even completely agree with that point. But we must bear in mind that this is just an example. For all we know, even nobles in Waterdeep, or merchants in Trademeet would want to do a thing in the same context. We don't know, and because we don't know I think we should try and do everything to prevent such a thing from happening. The only logical, and in fact the only solution to this matter is to conclude our fine debate as quickly as possible. One other solution (which is, actually, a mere delay of the situation) is to explain to everyone that precautions are being made, or by placing all kobolds in a strictly guarded reserve. Neither will prove successful I believe.

But what is my opinion in this matter? So far I've only tried to push you, my friends, into forming your conclusive speech. Nothing more, nothing less. Hastening a situation is not giving one's opinion on important matters, but rest assured, I will.

So far, I've read wide-spread opinions from different groups of considerate power. The Iron Throne has posed its interest in the matter, as do the dragons. I compliment them both, because they have shown great wisdom. But what I do see is a tendency to let arguments and valid points fly off, and then only the bickering about "whether or not to use flame throwers remains". A sad thing, really.
For it is my humble opinion that we should at least try to give Kobolds a chance in our society. What have they done to us that makes us want to kill them so badly? "They've attacked us without a reason!" "We haven't had a decent night's rest, because of wandering kobolds!" Rubbish! We should not look at the situation itself, but the idea behind the situation. The motives for the kobolds to attack wandering adventurers. There is always a motive for an attack, believe me. Only truly evil races such as the gnolls and the drow need no reason for attacking a person. It is in their blood. Kobolds do not share that bloodthirstyness with these evil denizens, I think. They are merely the fools who are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Just as the story about Ko the Kobold indicates, kobolds are not the evil beings that we think they are. There are numerous reasons to believe this:

<font color="white">CIVILIZATION</font>
- They have a certain form of hierarchy. This point is easily seen. Kobold society does not consist of anarchy, where everyone is equal. On the contrary, it is organised. There are kobold shamans (who rank higher) and the normal kobolds. Just one example, where there may be many more. And as we all know hierarchy is one of the first true examples of civilization emerging. Hierarchy indicates a certain form of society. Society indicates wisdom. And wisdom, my friends, is what we are looking for when we're searching a kobold's mind. A valid, but good point, is what we're facing here.
- They talk. Speech is common in Faerun, that is a given point. But the speech as we know it (human, elven, dwarven language) is common for us; lesser races such as the orcs, goblins and thus the kobolds do not all have a language of their own. Orcs usually only grunt and squeal (which is only a distress signal, if we can believe Juinnay's "Gnark-squeek -- A study of Orc Vocabulary), and goblins do not have a language at all. Of course, there are exceptions, but there are always exceptions, so that's not a special thing.
If we look at the Kobold race, however, we see an entirely different situation: Kobolds do tend to speak to each other, although we do not see it as a language. The common adventurer usually refers to Kobolds as "arrow-firing, yipping aggressors" or even a more 'negative' approach to a description. This yipping (which drives many adventurers insane) is not what we think it is: it's not just "yipping", it's a beginning form of speech, of language. What we see is kobolds communicating with each other by yipping. What they tell each other, is not quite clear, as we haven't had the opportunity to study it yet).
As we all know, speech is also an important part when checking races for civilised activity. Speech indicates a higher form of civilization; speech preceeds writing, but not by far. And when a written language occurs, history has begun, we all know that. So the kobold speech is another indication for civilization.

<font color="white"> MOTIVES </font>
The civilization argument did not really need any introduction, but I feel that this argument does. We are discussing the main point of my speech here, namely the motives of the kobolds for attacking us. What do we really know about their motives? Is it really true what we think of them? Are they really so evil? Nothing. No. No. In that particular order. Those are the answers to the questions I have just asked myself, and you.
First of all: we know nothing about kobold motives. The only thing that we do know is that we are being attacked, and, the dumb and bloodthirsty adventurers that we are, we tend not to think, but al we do is attack, hoping that the kobolds have valuables on them. But that is just plain wrong, my friends! We need to think before we act! If we do not consider if we are not the aggressor, if we are not the ones who are wrong, then we will never learn of our mistakes!
The second point, is it really true what we think of them, is all about preemptive thoughts actually. We tend to judge to quickly about one another. We see a man who looks kind of shabby, and we think it is a stray. Maybe he is a stray, but maybe he is not. We see a kobold and think of it as an evil creature that needs to be destroyed. And for what? Gold? Kobolds do not value such a material thing as gold, so this is just plain greed. A sin. Valuable items? Again no. Kobolds are in an evolutionary stage of civilization; they have not yet found the knowledge to make ingenious magical devices. This preemptiveness just proves again and again that we think too little and act too much, while it should be the other way around.
The third and last point: are kobolds evil. Again I have answered this question with a negative answer. No. Kobolds are not evil, far from it. "Then why do they attack me then" you might say. "Why do they disturb my night's rest?" It is simple really, albeit that the answer to these last to questions is not a true answer, but merely a speculation. This speculation however, does indeed prove my point in this matter.
Again it all comes down to the fact that we think too little. Have you ever even considered the fact that kobolds might have territories and that you are trespassing them. That they wake you up because they want you to leave? Bear in mind that they could have killed you, but they didn't. They didn't and so you have become the aggressor instead of them. And instead of leaving, you just kill them, and try to go to sleep again. Another option is the fact that the kobolds are just too frightened and try to defend themselves. As we all know now, kobolds are at the beginning of civilization, and in the beginning everything is scary. So what do you do when you encounter a heavily armed adventurer who looks very aggressive? You freeze in panic, and fire an arrow, although you know that it probably won't save your life. It's an act of panic that makes the kobold attack you, if they attack you. Bear in mind that you wouldn't even be sure what you would do when such a situation should occur in your life.

Now that I've given my arguments to you, my friends, I am positive that you will come to understand why I think this way, and most importantly: why I believe that Kobold Integration is of prime importance to this society. Know then, that I've only covered the kobold's point of view, and have not yet been able to deliver the full picture by also going on about the advantages on our side.

It was a pleasure having the floor, and I apologise for taking so much time on it. Again, time is valuable in this matter, so please: speak freely, but speak wisely.

With regards to my both my opponents and those who share the same side as I do, I remain,


Link
Spokesman extraordinaire

[ 06-13-2003, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Link ]

Well said Link well said.

Sythe, Sythe, Sythe. Are we not all guilty of something? Is there not something that you hate above all else? I hate kobolds. I do not deny that cI may be evil in some way, but are we not all?

Yes we may be guilty of things, but would you want the destruction of an entire race over your head just because you hate them, can't understand them? That would be considered genocide, not to mention that the kobolds as a species are probably as guilty as humans. No race is innocent, and if you look at all of the bad things of a species and after judging them on that decide to kill them all, we might as well kill all sentient life.

Now back to the actual Kobold decision. I will support any decision with killing them all. If we won't help them become integrated into our society or help them form their own country, then I say we should just ignore them.
The adventurers who have complaints against the kobolds know the danger of adventuring, what would adventuring be if there were no little challenges to it? As far as I have heard, its the adventurers who either get too close to kobold territory or meet kobolds, except for that shaman, that are complaining. Kobolds usually don't attack human villages unless severely provoked and as far as this meeting goes, there have been no complaints from any settlements that I have heard. From what I can tell, there is nothing to be decided about the kobolds because a few adventurers are complaining about arrows. They know the risks and hopefully can take care of themselves.

Well said, The Lilarcor, well said. I am quite relieved to see that is it not only me who thinks that way, but also most honourable Sythe and you too. Concerning the matter, however, I promised to go on about the human advantages of Kobold Integration. And so will I do now.

As we all know, we are talking about the important subject Kobold Integration (K.I.) here. I'm glad to see that numerous people have set there minds to cunning mode in order to display why we should integrate a minor race such as kobolds in our society, but only in the viewpoint of the kobold. None of us, or, in each case, none of us has successfully shared an argument for our own sake, why we should vote "Yes" when deciding about Kobold Integration.

To be quite honest, I find this lack of thinking a bit disturbing. Of course, being the altruistic persons that we are, we think of others first, and that is no wrong thing, on the contrary. One must always think as much about as one does about him or herself. And that is where the lot of you fails: you only want to look at it from the Kobold's point of view when you think about why we should allow kobolds to integrate.
This is important because our opponents in this matter tend to get away with arguments as: "They smell bad" and "They fart" concerning kobold's sake, and come with arguments as: "They threaten our existence as adventureres" whilst talking about our own sake. And to my great dismay I have not seen any decent reply concerning these matters, save for the noble speech of Lilarcor who tells us that 'the profession of adventuring is to seek adventure, not wander in the wilderness having a dull life'. But this, also, is a more lame reply than I had hoped to see.

So what have I got to say about the matter then? In my honest opinion it is of vital importance that we look at our ourselves, and what benefits we have to gain from a possible Kobold-Human alliance. And of course, I understand, exchanging knowledge, establishing trade routes, and sharing a military enemy are one of the more common things one thinks about then. But I propose we delve deeper into the matter and think of the more deepgoing consequences we will face when kobolds will be integrated in our society. Generally speaking I will therefore have a speech that consists of two parts: the obvious advantages, and the second part where I will display the more deeper advantages, which, I trust, not everyone here knows about.

<font color="white">OBVIOUS ADVANTAGES</font>
As I have already mentioned, there are some obvious advantages to be had when we consider Kobold Integration;
- Exchange of Knowledge. As we all know: knowledge is power, and there can never be a sufficient amount of knowledge, for there is always more to be learned. And in my honest opinion we can gain a lot of knowledge (not only concerning Kobold society and everything close to that) by simply allowing kobolds to integrate in our society. I wish to ask the participants of this debate to take a moment and think about it for a while. Think of what we can learn from the kobolds: we gain excessive knowledge about their society, as I've already pointed out, for one thing. They could share their knowledge about certain wilderness area's so we wouldn't have to risk sending expensive expeditions to explore them. These are but the few things that we have to gain when the both us exchange our knowledge. And believe me: there are many more; I honestly believe that you can think of certain advantages yourself as well.
- Establishing Trade Routes. The greedy we are, the more we focus on economic advantages when we decide about certain points. Therefore I will not ignore the economic point that we're facing here. As we all know, trade, if not taken lightly, is something that gives us profit. We trade common goods for uncommon goods with the kobolds, to give an example. And with these new trade routes our economy gains a new boost, and economies are the main support pillar in a society, as we all know. Frankly speaking, I think we should not let our preemptiveness speak because Kobolds 'are smelly, and ugly' but think of what we have to gain for ourselves. A better, cheaper life? Isn't that what everyone wants?
- Sharing Military Enemy. This point is one of the more obvious as well. Picture the Zhentarim, having set up an army, attacking the city of Neverwinter, a city which lies secluded and thus the armies we send to their aid may not arrive in time. Nowadays the city would be lost, and we could do nothing. But if we allow for Kobold Integration to happen, I'm sure that we could send a Kobold army to help the people of Neverwinter out. A minor example of something that is a mutual advantage to both our races; kobolds help us out, we help kobolds out. Not to mention the fact that we have an enemy less (the kobolds themselves!).

<font color="white">DEEPER ADVANTAGES</font>
Short but valid points, I'd say. If I were lazy, then I would leave it this way. Alas, I am not, and I feel it is my duty to point out deeper motives for allowing Kobold Integration;
- Genotype Mixing. The famous scientist and evolution expert Charles Darwin has already pointed out that the evolution is the key to survival. The fittest to the current situation are adapted best, and will survive to meet a new age, while the weak (physically and/or mentally) will perish. We do not know what the future will bring, but the exchange of Kobold and Human genes creating the "Humold" or the "Koman" might prove to be beneficial. We must of course consider these more advanced points as advantages as well.
- Kobolds Can Do Any Task. As we all know, kobolds are smaller, a bit more agile and better adapted to rough life than humans are. Kobolds are therefore more fitting to do our dirty work; they may prove just as silent assassins (with their bow and arrows), they can pick up the garbage, or serve as lab experiment animals. This can prove quite useful, believe me.

My mind hurts because of thinking so much. I fear I must take a rest, and leave the floor to someone who is willing to take it.


Without further or due, I remain


Link
Spokesman extraordinaire

[ 06-15-2003, 05:09 AM: Message edited by: Link ]

And if we take these concepts not just to kobolds, but too all humanoid species, and getting rid of our speciecist views.
If you look at an average, large human city, there is poor, there is rich, there are evil and there are good in the city. If we forget what species we belong too and ridding society of those concepts and views. We, could have orc, humans, kobolds and goblins all living together.
Sure this is a bit farfetched for todays times, but it starts now. Getting rid of the species boundry between humans and kobolds is the first step to inter-humanoid peace! And if we all have peace, then we wouldn't have to worry about species on the frontier preparing for raids and attacks. With this mixing, We would be one people, of many species, each helping each other to be more balanced and stronger.

[ 06-15-2003, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: The Lilarcor ]

Look, i don't want them all dead. THose that can prove themselves can stay alive. Otherwise, no.

Link here are some objections [img]graemlins/evillaughter2.gif[/img]

-We can just send an adventuring party out to explore wilderness areas for a small sum of money and if they are so primitive we probably know all the knowledge that they know already.

-What type of goods does the kobold have that we would want and why not just kill the kobold to get the goods instead of bothering to trade.

-as for military, bandits have been able to integregate goblins, gnolls, xvarts and humans together so they could have already integregated kobolds into their societies in secret.

-is not the kobold weak physically or mentally already so if it is the survival of the fittest we would just be downgrading and hey would you really want to be a Koman.
[img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]
[img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img]
Flamethrower - Invention of a priest of Gond. It is a long tubular device with a small trigger. The tube is filled with gas or oil under which can be released by pulling the trigger. There are also two small flintstones which rub together to create a spark that activate, when the trigger is pulled. The end result is a long jet of flame which pushes itself out from the Barrel.
[img]graemlins/showoff.gif[/img]

Lord Dracon; it breaks my heart to see such a young lad as yourself in such agony, in such pain. It is obvious that the dark side has taken you before you could enjoy the full greatness of life itself. Why, I ask you, why do you hate the kobold race so much? Why are you not willing to share their kindred spirit as one of your own?

I greatly disapprove of your refutal, Lord Dracon, for they are simple, and not well thought of;



But that is not the problem, my honorable adversary! Why bother using adventurers to explore wilderness area's for money when we can get the knowledge about those wilderness faster, cheaper and better using kobold knowledge? And furthermore: I really think that adventurers have better things to do than explore wildlife regions, when there's treasure hunting to be done somewhere else.
And concerning the primitiveness of kobolds; yes. I admit they are rather primitive in their behaviour, and not as advanced (yet) as we are, but that does not mean that there is nothing to be learned from them. Scientists can study their behaviour, so we learn more about them, just to give an example. We know to little about the kobolds to state such a bold fact such as you just did.



As we all know Kobold Dung is one of the most furtile dung that exists in Faerun. It doesn't even compare to Dragon Drops, or Gnoll Goo, one of the more usual brands of dung available at merchants all across Toril. For a small price we could acquire this dung and use it to furtilise our lands; no more starvation, better crops. I believe this is but one of the advantages that are to be gained when we let Kobolds integrate in our society.
Not to mention valuable winter wolf pelts that kobolds may have, that they are willing to trade for mere arrows, or perhaps even for. Profit is to be gained from this situation, on both sides!



I wouldn't call a band of savage, bloodthirsty, scarred, but above all ugly thugs a society, but I'll leave that to others to decide. Fact is though, that bandits are a secret society, so we do not know in what matter they *did* integrate kobolds (and those other races of course!) in their so-called society. Furthermore, I don't think it's fair to compare our flourishing civilization to a group of low-life scum. And as we all know, their struggles to use these subraces as their minions have proved futile, not only because they used the wrong methods (not only by making them attack innocents peasants, and villagers).



The Kobold is in my eyes merely physically and mentally different. If we were only to look at physical facts and matters, then the world would probably consist only of dragons, wouldn't it? They are by far the strongest creatures alive. And if we would look at the world from a mental point of view then the world would be full of mind flayers, I would reckon. Not a nice picture at all. What you must realize, my friend, is that size and cunning doesn't count: the way you use your size, and use your cunning is the key. And the kobold has been able to survive for a decent amount of time, so therefore I wouldn't think it to be fair to degenerate them this much.
Furthermore; why no be Koman? People might think of you as a new superhero, with such a fancy name ;) [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]


Link
Spokesman extraordinaire

[ 06-16-2003, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: Link ]

Thabkyou for knowing what a flamethrower is Lord Dracon