<font color=pink>Interesting topic, and dangerous, yes. I only read the 1st post the quick scanned the first page, so forgive me if I reiterate things that were argued in the others.

I am an atheist, and more discreetly than I would like to be, mostly because the town I live in is largely Christian. But as to why I'm atheist...
Just because someone doesn't believe there is a God doesn't mean they don't strive to be good people, obviously. I have morals, and I value them. True, there is no proof that God doesn't exist, but no real harcore proof that he does. If I do something that would be considered a sin, I acknowlege it and move on with my life. But then, what is your point in life if you don't believe in heaven or hell, knowing that you won't go to either when you die? Well, for me, I do what makes me happy, and thats that. I don't worry about commiting some horrible deed and end up being banished to eternal torture in hell, dwelling on something like that is just silly. And I believe the horrible things that happen to our people and country is God's will either, because its cruel. Anyway, its just my 2-cents. People believe what they believe, and I believe God does not exist. If you believe, then good for you, its your choice *shrug*

And I'll always remember Homer Simpson's quote to Flanders: Hey Flanders! While doing my family's taxes I accidently came across an equation that proves God doesn't exist!</font>

Why is the title of this thread a misnomer? I asked one question: why don't you believe? That's basically what it was. Just wanted a discussion on reasons despite all the IMO convincing stuff. If you still think it's a misnomer, you don't know what a misnomer is [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Well, Vaskez, I was poking fun at the number of issues which have been incorporated and the vastness of the topic, all 150 or so posts. I wasn't taking a pot-shot at you, per se.

But, now that you mention it, I happen to know the word misnomer and several others, like asinine. I've been generally decent to you on the various thread, but you're starting to irk me a bit.

Plus, the sheer stupidity of your posts on this topic are, more often than not, astounding. You have the absolute silliest assumption with the notion that the inability to disprove something means you believe it in the face of no real proof. You also seem to think you have the "who made God" thing figured out, yet rather than answer my querry as to how your thoughts on that went, you've posted a lot of rambling BS.

Oh, forget it. There are other threads worth my time. I'll explain life to you when I'm in a better humor.

[img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] Why did you have to introduce the Simpsons to an extreme religious debate, Blue? [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img]

LOL TL. Yeah my sheer stupidity is what this topic's about. Oooh don't read any more my sheer stupidity might be catching. :D

[ 01-22-2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]

Well, as for the first part of your quote, I'm $175/hr. Make the check out directly to "Timber Loftis, Esq., Bhaalspawn" and forward it to:
Canopy Cabin: Protector's Office
#3 Green Lane
Umar Hills, Amn 60610

As for the second, mayhap it's something with you? Just a thought.

As for what query I was referring to: When I mentioned the "who made god" question you said you'd addressed it, along with the "universe is eternal" notion. I actually want to see your thoughts on it. Can you oblige?

Oh yeah I guess it must be with me. I nearly forgot about how annoying I used to be. I guess some of that's coming back. A leapord doesn't change his spots right?

Anyway yeah, whatever, I'll take the blame for pissing people off. And yeah my posts are sheer stupidity for the masses. That's my aim after all. To confuse everyone with stupidity. I mean heh, I better learn to think and argue first right? What did I think wanting to post my very own thread on such a topic that's obviously far above my understanding? :D

You wanna hear more of my stupidity? Well ok I warned ya:

I did address that query but I guess you didn't find it in the mess above I said (in other words)that if you look, nothing we can see can make itself. Not atoms etc. Therefore something that was before everything must have made them. What was before everything? Only that which is infinite. Then I argued that to be infinite and to create an infinite universe you must understand infinity and for that you need an infinite mind. Thus someone with an infinite mind i.e. what we call a God must exist. The only valid counter-argument I have heard to this is that maybe the universe has always been therefore it doesn't need to have been created. I think that's quite convincing but not good enough for me. I don't think that such a perfect nature could have come about without thought. I also don't think millions of people who know they feel God's presence can just be dismissed like that unless you explain their feeling as dillusion which I might do in but not with such a huge occurrence. Anyway neither of those arguments are very convincing on their own maybe but when I look at everything together, it's good enough for me. That is the whole gist of this thread. Not religion, not who is happier and not how you should live. I wanted to know that despite all the arguments I presented why so many don't believe i.e. why people interpret the same argument so differently, some interpret it as convincing some as bollocks.

[ 01-22-2003, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]

<font color=pink>Heh, sorry about the Simpsons crack, but it was funny :D

Now, I have lost reason as to why this thread is here. It would be like myself making a thread demanding why people think God exists....just a stupid thing to do.
Now stop the atheist bashing, just cause we don't believe in God doesnt mean we don't have feelings [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>

Wasn't bashing just questioning. You're too sensitive [img]tongue.gif[/img] Anyway if you made a thread like that, that'd be good. I could participate just by copying/pasting from this thread :D

Well, to retort (and I thank you for the thoughts):

1. I am, as I mentioned earlier, a believer the universe is infinite. The "nothing can create itself" notion does not hold water. If the universe can't create itself, neither can God. If God can be infinite, so can the universe. I think extrapolating the question of "what put me here" to God is a natural personification tendancy that we find evidence of in all human thought.

2. As for the perfection of nature, I point out again that in my view an infinite universe over an infinite period of time will produce every possible thing and combination of things imaginable. Simple definition of infinity.

3. We feel "god's" presence because we are self-conscious. The notion of self-realization and need for a belief in something more and eternal, in my view, result from the same chemical combinations and neural sysnapses that make us fear death - which is an immediate side-effect of sentience.

I simply feel that virtue lies not in accepting the fiction of God, but rather in having the strength of character to realize you will be dirt and still carry on. We simply differ here. I, of course, respect your right to your opinion, and I am glad that there are many religious folk on the planet. But, it's not for me. I love to study religion, especially as it is always a window into history, and I have personally explored many spiritual paths. But, in the end, I think that true spirituality comes with accepting the humbling notion that though our brains are bigger we are no different or more special than any other organism on the planet.