Are Italians to take offense now because in games there always are asociated with the mafia, or russians because in games they always want to destroy or conquer the world? Or germans, in games they only appear as nazis? Why dont all of you stop for a moment, take the box that nerverwinter nights came in and look what it has written on it: GAME!

[ 07-08-2002, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: tegoyo ]

<font color="#ff3333"> Hear Hear! I so ttotaly agree!</font>

damnit you gotta point there

but they still shouldn't call gypsies a thief/rogue class

excuse my bad english..

Unfortunately the ideas perpetuated in the class description are the reason why the race has been so persecuted. :(

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to actually play a Gypsy. I'd put it as a human subrace (an option now [img]smile.gif[/img] ) and then pick a class based on that. I'm then free to play the character according to the stereotype, or not.

Ok, here's a copy of an email I sent to bioware. I'll start with the personal route.

Hi,

I'm writing to alert you to a problem I've found within your game, one it would be advisable to correct before lawyers get involved.

It's the fact that you have the word "Gypsie" as a SUBCLASS of the thieflike Rogue.

Gypsies are in fact a race. The Romani people. They, along with Jews were the two victims of the Nazi genocidal holocaust, and to this day remain one of the most oppressed people in Europe due to their lifestyle choices, their lack of a homeland and national voice, and STEREOTYPICAL MISCONCEPTION, which possibly resulted in, and will be perpetuated by the negative stereotype in Neverwinter Nights.

I understand the wonderful roleplay of playing a romantic gypsie. I am an avid roleplayer myself, and have bought ,many of your games in the past. The problem lies in Gypsie being a class/profession, not a race.

I would implore you, both for the respect of a persecuted minority, and to avoid taking damages yourselves, to release a patch for NWN, substituting the word Gypsie, for another type of rogue subclass without reference to race. Someone could if they desired use the word "Gypsie" as a human subrace could they not?

There are many websites devoted to or referencing the Romani(Gypsie) people, the Roma, and their problems, historical and current.

Here are a few:

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/patrin.htm
http://www.bartleby.com/65/ro/Romany.html
http://www.worldlanguage.com/Languages/Romany.htm

Patrin contains an insight into the history of the Romani/Gypsie people which I have edited considerably:

Origins of the Romani People
by Ian Hancock

The Roma have been made up of many different groups of people from the very beginning, and have absorbed outsiders throughout their history. Because they arrived in Europe from the East, they were thought by the first Europeans to be from Turkey or Nubia or Egypt, or any number of vaguely acknowledged non-European places, and they were called, among other things, Egyptians or ‘Gyptians, which is where the word "Gypsy" comes from................

...............In Europe, Roma were either kept in slavery in the Balkans (in territory that is today Romania), or else were able to move on and up into the rest of the continent, reaching every northern and western country by about 1500. In the course of time, as a result of having interacted with various European populations, and being fragmented into widely-separated groups, Roma have emerged as a collection of distinct ethnic groups within the larger whole.■
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Honorable Ian F. Hancock, of British Romani and Hungarian Romani descent, represents Roma on the United States Holocaust Memorial Council. He is professor of Romani Studies at the University of Texas at Austin, and has authored nearly 300 publications. In 1997, he was awarded the international Rafto Human Rights Prize (Norway), and in 1998 was recipient of the Gamaliel Chair in Peace and Justice (USA).
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Taken from Patrin regarding their persecutiion:

The Roma remain the most persecuted minority in Europe. Innocent children, mothers and fathers are brutally attacked and murdered and there is little action from the authorities to apprehend and prosecute the racist culprits responsible for these senseless acts. The authorities themselves are often responsible for singling out Roma by withholding rightful citizenship, asylum from persecution, right to travel, social services and due process of the law. Imprisonment and deportation are the only official actions of many governments.
The reasons given by European governments lack clear thought or even-handed justice. The German government claims it reduces racial violence by removing Roma from their country. And what happens to the people responsible for committing violence against Roma and other minorities? Other governments claim that Roma are responsible for much petty crime, but have they attempted to remove obstacles that prevent unemployment among the Roma, reducing crime at the same time? Racist organisations demonstrate their messages of hate openly directed at Roma with little or no restrictions, yet Roma have little if any active decision-making roles in policies directly affecting their own future.
Governments have attempted to forcibly settle and resettle Roma, often with little success and negative results. These same governments have also refused Roma the opportunity to settle down of their own accord. When a new Roma encampment begins, they are forcibly removed. Reasons include safety, hygiene, and reducing crime, but there is feeble effort by the authorities in power to improve these settlements.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Many thanks for your time. I would hope this problem can be rectified quickly and easily. I await your reply.

Cheers

Hugh

Post the reply they send you, if any, as well. I'd love to see if they actually care enough about this to do anything about it....

maybe its just a spelling error cause it seems yorick likes to spell things wrong but in the game did they spell the class "gypsie" or "gypsy" if they spelled it as the first like yorick has been proclaiming then by all means there should be no race issue. its like a quote in high school.if you write a paper and you dont write it you just copy someone elses then yes it is wrong but if you rewrite it since it was based on what you where talking about it is perfectly legal.therefore if bioware understands that "gypsy" is a wondering nomad out side of societies norm. then cant they say that a "gypsie" is a rogue type of nomad that wonders and is adept in theivery.

and also about the game "return to castle wolfenstein" . i have heard that they dont want it to be sold over there in germany cause it is on a racist bias.(doesnt mean people cant get copies) but you have to remember one thing they cant sue over it because in america you have the right to free speech. you have the right to call an african american a "■■■■■■" if you so choose as long as you dont insue violence its well within your american rights. its the right of free speech. you dont have to listen if you dont want to.now im sorry i used the "n" word but it is a prime example as to how the U.S. have been given that right.

im not argueing with this post i am simply stating fact of an american right.

Romani, Romany. Gypsie, Gypsy. Same diff. Hardly the same as a plagiarism example. The inferrence is still the same.

In any case it's spelt Gypsy.