Nope. The nationality of the parents, or the nation where you take your first breathe decides your nationality. None of this takes away from the humanity of a preborn human. </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for the answer. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Only I never said that. You are retorting an opinion I have not made! You have repeated it enough it may as well be true though. </font>[/QUOTE]What you have said is that I insult homosexuals, or condemn homosexuals when I have never done anything of the sort. You are the one failing to see delineation in this area, hence the conclusion I've articulated </font>[/QUOTE]Lumping homosexuality in with bestiality, peodophila and incests is derisive no matter how you spin it. Whether you meant to do it or not, it is insulting enough that even several heterosexuals have pointed it out. I have no clue what this has to do with the opinions I have never stated, that you have put in my mouth. </font>[/QUOTE]Why? You are excercising judgement on what is acceptable sex and what isn't. All a person does when they "lump those together" is move the line. Paedophilia hasn't always been so derided in human cultures. Think ancient Hellas and Rome, where "hebaphiles" were not as derided as they are now.

Also, incest has occured in Royal families for generations. NB: INCEST AND PAEDOPHILIA ARE DIFFERENT PEOPLE. When a father molests a child, it is both incest AND paedophila, but both can occur preclusively.

So how is this for a lump:

Adultery, premarital sex/fornication, homosexual sex, bestiality, incest, paedophilic sex. Oh look. I've lumped myself, an former adulterer in with paedophiles and *shock* homosexuals.

What is the comonality? SEX OUTSIDE HETROSEXUAL MARRIAGE. Not that hard to see the correlation. Now why is that so offensive? I'm not offended when preachers run a list that includes adultery. Why get heated up by jedgement. You excercise judgement in deciding whether to engage in an activity or not. It's a high bar. A narrow walk. One which many of us stumble over, but one which many believe is a foundation for stable society

Yorick, does a man or woman have a right to marry? It is a yes or no question. To move this to a sexual issue isn't understanding marriage. Marriage has nothing to do with sex.

Thanks for showing your true colors Magness. After the insults, I'm Audi.

By the by, I'm actually a stalwart and brave fence-sitting moderate who realizes that only small-minded idiots can wholeheartedly adopt an argument as absolutely true. The world is not black and white. So, hide over there with your bigotted homophobic crowd milling around being a shill to big business, which has convinced you it has every right to lord over you. Me, I'm brave enough to stand in the middle and tell you you don't know shit -- and neither does the other side. I've got the answers, friend, but the world got too dumb to seek oracles 2000 years ago.

Ah... that felt good. [img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img] off. I've got to go now. I have a nice luxury press box seat for a baseball game. I'm off to spend some of that money you folks in the lower brackets were kind enough to hand over to me. Thanks so much -- I'm so glad you think I have such a right to it. Have a lovely.

[ 08-10-2004, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

Oh, joy. Another fence-sitting bleeping lawyer. (At least you sound like one.)

No, the world is very much black and white. The supposed great sea of gray is nothing more than the smokescreen of moral relativism, created to hide and excuse the evil acts of people who do not wish to have those acts exposed to the light of truth.

And BTW, I am most definitely not a religous person. But I am a person of considerable moral conviction, in spite of my thoroughly non-religous beliefs.

LOL. Your welcome...I think.
[img]graemlins/funnysad.gif[/img]

Ahhh, this slipped by me. You may claim to be a moderate, but you speak with the language of the left.

"were kind enough to hand over to me"

The money that you "got back" wasn't the government's money. It was YOUR money. I have you nothing. You have a "right to it" because it's YOURS.

Sure. One opinion paves the way for (seemingly) guiltless murder, while the other doesn't.

Mind you, mothers that do abort are victims just as much as the aborted child. Guilt, physical damage, emotional problems. Many abort because they have no option. The fathers urge abortion, they can't financially afford it, society says a womans life is ruined if she doesn't abort.

Where has society gone so wrong, that the ultimate human creation - another life - is something to be avoided? Why are we letteing young women go unassisted so they feel they have no choice but to terminate pregnancy? Where is the society?

Society as a whole is to blame for each death. It is not the mothers fault. She's is doing something legally sanctioned, encouraged and advised by society.

Frightening.

Oh, joy. Another fence-sitting bleeping lawyer. (At least you sound like one.)

No, the world is very much black and white. The supposed great sea of gray is nothing more than the smokescreen of moral relativism, created to hide and excuse the evil acts of people who do not wish to have those acts exposed to the light of truth.

And BTW, I am most definitely not a religous person. But I am a person of considerable moral conviction, in spite of my thoroughly non-religous beliefs. </font>[/QUOTE]If not on religion, then what do you base your moral beliefs on? Philosophy, the words of others or an "inner voice"?

Fellas, I vaguely remember having a long debate about gay marriages here a few months ago, but no law against rehashing things. Two comments I would like to make though:


1. Settle yourselves down. We don't want anyone sent to the sin bin for two weeks, but this will be up to you, not us. I see Chewy and Yorick are indulging in their favourite pastime of dancing with each other, just remember where the line is guys, and don't cross it. And Magness, calm down dude - I've seen a few of your posts today and you need to ease up on the aggression mate. [img]smile.gif[/img]

2. Keep this discussion away from religion please, we have a moratorium on that here.

Cheers fellas. [img]smile.gif[/img]