<font color=deepskyblue>Ooooops!!! Like I said in my "Cutbacks" thread, what few posts I can make are done rather quickly. Thanks for catching the spelling error.

AFA the Phoenix force being tied to the Beyonder - I don't really like that theory. I don't remember the Phoenix timeline, but I was under the impression it occurred before the Secret Wars miniseries (1983-84). If I'm wrong, let me know. I didn't read the X-men back then. In fact, it was the Secret Wars series that first got me interested in them.

That was also the series that introduced Spiderman's black uniform - which turned out to be a symbiote - so he got rid of it. It then found a new host and created one of Spidey's biggest nemesis - Venom. But I digress.

I don't think the Phoenix force was really envisioned as an alien force. I think the writers were trying to "power up" Jean Grey and didn't realize just HOW FAR overboard they had gone. Then they had to go back and fix it.</font>

<font color="#f683ad">No Cerek, you are right, the Phoenix Saga came years before the "Secret Wars" which I completely enjoyed as well [img]smile.gif[/img] But I saw somewhere a passing reference that I thought linked the Phoenix to the Beyonder....like it was one of his earlier forays into this multi-verse. But I could be completely wrong too...just dont remember enough.

By the way, Am I the only one who liked Spideys Black and White "symbiote" uniform better than the red and blue? [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

I never read the comics but in the cartoons, Phoenix is definitely an alien force that posesses Jean when she is travlling in a space shuttle.

The Phoenix force was an alien entity, a sentient force representative of all potential life (thus it was phenomenally powerful). It came to Jean as she was dying because it "heard" her mental death-cry. The Phoenix force put her body into a cocoon at the bottom of the ocean so she could heal and then replicated her body for itself to inhabit and learn about humanity. The Phoenix we saw in the comic was not Jean-- it was a simulacrum created by the Phoenix force and used by it to interact with humanity. It had copied her exactly, however and thus had all her thoughts, memories and emotions. When Dark Phoenix went on a rampage (eating a sun...) Prof X used his mental powers to subdue her, but realized it was the supressed emotions of Jean Grey that helped him overcome her. Even HE didn't have the power to stop her.
The Phoenix power was not tied to the Beyonder, however, it WAS used to combat him at one point-- and while it was of a lesser magnitude than his own ability, it was sufficiently powerful to briefly overcome him. At that time, it was being channeled by Rachel Summers (the daughter of Scott Summers and the Jean Grey clone, Madelyn Pryor, from the future) and it may not have been as powerful as it was when it manifested itself in the Jean simulacrum...
Later, after joining Excalibur, Rachel discovered that the Phoenix force drew its power from potential new life in the universe and thus, in using the power, she was denying the birth of new life...
Must.. take... break... Brain... shutting down...

<font color="#f683ad">Yeah...better take a break...yer boobs are bouncing like superballs ;) </font>

After reviewing my previous post and replaying all those old stories in my head, I recall reading a quote that one "must possess a PHD to read and understand X-Men." Suddenly, I am forced to concur...

Aaaaa - comics geekdom, my long forgotten specialist subject [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img]

Just a couple of points (nits).......

Rogue got her permanent powers absorbing those of Miss Marvel(Carol Danvers). Therefore she is as powerful as Miss Marvel used to be.

Colossus is pretty powerful, but if IIRC, he has vulnerabilities to corrosive substances and extreme cold (which causes fractures in his armoured form which translate to wounds when he reverts to normal)

Galactus was once defeated by Dr. Strange who used a spell called "The Images of Ikonn" which overwhelmed Galactus with images of all the deaths he had caused.

I cannot exactly remember where or when I saw it, but I vaguely remember there was one comic I read once where there was a completely omnipotent character who subconciously altered reality just by wishing for something. Fortunately he was a total nobody and all he wanted was a quiet life, so he was no threat to anyone. I think he showed up in an episode of the FF possibly also involving Dr Doom, but I could be wrong [img]smile.gif[/img] He would get my vote for the strongest mutant

Oh, and IMHO, Tigra was HOT [img]graemlins/crazyeyes.gif[/img] :eek:

in all that mutant debate and politcal and terrorist and social aspects included..

didnt anybody find it funny the part

spoil ahead

when wolverine was asked to put down "his knives" by cops :D

powerful mutants?
- rougue
- professor X
- magneto

powerful marvel character?
- pheonix
- thor
- silver surfer
- thanos

* im going a little off topic there :D

You are referring to Molecule Man, Mouse. He was basically a god, but wanted to be a normal guy.
Also, the Beyonder was not as powerful as he was portrayed. It was revealed at one point that the Celestials could have stopped him, but chose not to, so that they could observe him (recurring theme...)

<font color="#f683ad">I think in the Beyonder series it is established that Molecule Man was actually the "most powerful" mutant on the planet if not the universe....I seem to recall the second round of "Secret Wars" revolved around him and his coming into the realization of exactly how powerful he was.....unless they contradicted this later in the 1990's it was a pretty done deal with him at the top of the food chain. (I just remembered this)</font>