I have to say both my parent's smoked around me and my sister growing up.

Neither of us chose to smoke. To be honest I have been sick maybe four times in my life. Very lucky I guess. My physical-s have all been of a normal 24 year old. My sister 28 is the same way and yes I am thankful.

I can't say either of us were affected at all. That is not to say what you are saying is not true. It probably is. I am sure it varies from house to house including personal gene structures. Smoking is unhealthy but let's not stretch it. I know people who smoked their whole life who never had cancer or problems. It varies as I said.

Let's try to be careful here and not be so high and mighty. None of us are perfect.

I am saying when a store owner can not choose to make his place smoke or smoke free there is a problem. No one has to visit or work there. That is not freedom. Smoking in a food joint today and next thing you won't be able to smoke in public... anywhere. That is where me as a non-smoker get's in marches with smokers. I won't live in a place where the only freedom you have is not offend certain people.

Nonsense, Yorick. This ban is not about smoking in public places, but about invited guests smoking in a private business. If the musicians/waitresses don't want to work in a private business that allows smoking, get a different gig/job, don't force everyone else to play by the rules you would like to see in place.

The bigger picture is a political correct America that has you in jail for sneezing. Maybe I'll go join some "green" smokers in Amsterdam and take in some second hand smoke [img]smile.gif[/img]

Even PRIVATE BUSINESS (which are open to the public)cannot by law expose their patrons to health hazards. Now if it is a PRIVATE CLUB, yes, I agree with you completely. The public assumes, and rightfully so (thanks to the government imposing standards of practice) that any estalishment open to the public is safe. And on the matter of employees, employees do have rights, the right to work in as safe an environment as can be provided---this is why we have OSHA.

A bar is a place frequented by the public. If you make love to your women in a bar full of people you are doing so in a PUBLIC place. Public as defined by the public that enter it, not the ownership.

In other English speaking countries, a bar is known as a pub. A PUBLIC BAR as opposed to a clubs private bar for members only.

Both still cater to "the public". Which is what we're talking about.

But does nothing if you kill someone with secondhand smoke?

Are you certain that a bar is a legally a public place? I'm pretty sure that the reason that bouncers can kick you out is simply through revoking the invitation into a private business. Otherwise, unless you committed some chargeable infraction, and went through due process, you could not be denied admittance.

But does nothing if you kill someone with secondhand smoke? </font>[/QUOTE]do you drive a car yoric? or ride a bus? or even light a fire? do you buy from companies that make plastic? guess what everything here kills people everyday, smog, toxins from plastics wood burning causes just as much carbon-dioxide as cigs do and lest not forget the oil that when burned poluttes the air we breath, non- smokers do just as much if not more than smokers do to distroy the planet, all we do is enjoy a smoke once and a while, and when i drink or play pool, i like to smoke

Of course workers have rights, Reeka. And one of those rights is the right to choose to refuse any job that will impose any conditions on the worker that he is not willing to accept. If you don't want to work in tobacco smoke, don't work in a bar. It is common knowledge that smoking is pretty commonplace in bars. If you don't like heights, don't get a job building skyscrapers. Get a job elsewhere if it bothers you.

[ 05-11-2003, 01:37 AM: Message edited by: Thorfinn ]

well, I think that there are alot more drinkers out there than smokers--drinkers who do not smoke that is. I except that bar owners will find thier business increasing.