Heh heh. Oh I'm used to it man ;) To a degree that I know that staying true to your ideals outweighs practical concerns of life and limb.

Well I think you're getting there johnny. It's the word 'always' that bothers me. Are you aware that jews have been known to own slaves in the past? I would think it was those jews who were doing the stepping upon.

Im still puttin my peace hopes on a small asteroid.

<font face="COMIC Sans MS" size="3" color="#7c9bc4">
Oh thanks for the wise insight [img]smile.gif[/img] Never would have thought of trying that....good thing people like me (short sighted agressive types) don't rule the world [img]smile.gif[/img] Oops...wait...not only do we...we have for all of recorded history [img]smile.gif[/img] ahhh well....maybe some day homosuperior will evolve.

If your assertion that staying true to the "Higher" ideals out weigh thoe ideas of life and limb were true...you would not survive puberty. Ideals are fine, but do not engender survival in the reality of cold cruel nature AND humanity.

It is nice to want to bring peace...we have spent a considerable amount of time and resources throughout histry trying to bring peace. The only problem is...no two people/states/nations/civilizations seem to agree on any of the particulars [img]smile.gif[/img]
</font>

[ 08-24-2003, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

who said anything about peace Magik?

Absolutely correct and history shows this to be true. If Chamberlain had been allowed to continue his diplomacy there would not have been a war in Europe or maybe WW II at all. Diplomacy will always work because humans are basically good and never want to be aggresive.

[ 08-24-2003, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: antryg ]

Well, I'm surprised that it took 95 posts for a WW2 analogy to be thrown out into the open, good restraint there Antryg ;)
People, do as you feel you have to. But if you are going to advocate/suggest/muse over the eradication of an entire people (ie: 'Let Israel wipe the Palestinians off the face of the Earth with American-subsidised weapons and equipment'), at least do them the courtesy of going to their land and experiencing their ways firsthand. Get to know them a little, learn some of their language, partake in a few of their customs. If you still want them wiped out after that, then so be it, either 'they' or you must be incredibly evil for you to desire such a thing afterward. Having ill opinions of people based on what you've heard through the grapevine is one thing, to support genocide based upon these sorts of prejudiced assumptions is another thing entirely.
Don't be just another citizen, sitting at home, relying on censored news bulletins for your worldly info. Be a human, see the world and it's people for yourself. Citizenship is a social poison, a network of psychological chains, binding you to prejudiced loyalty and hatred toward people you have never met. Don't be a citizen, be a human.

I wouldn't mind doing that, if it weren't for the fact that i'd probably be lynched the minute i pop my western face around the corner.

Or so you assume from watching the daily news. Life is dangerous mate, that's what makes it interesting ;)

-edit- a good way to start would be to get in touch with your local muslim communities (there are plenty throughout Holland). Right now in my hometown it is 'Islam awareness week' (a cheesy name I know [img]smile.gif[/img] ), and numerous seminars by Muslim clerics are running at the local university, along with open days in local mosques and prayer centres, public exhibitions in the city, and fliers being handed out left right and centre. It's been great really.

Anyway, you might want to start your trip in Turkey, a slightly more 'Westernised' Muslim country. My sister has just returned to London after a one-month vacation there. She thought it was lovely, some of the men in the cities were a bit sleasy, but the people in the countryside were wonderful, hospitable, courteous and friendly. From there you might also want to move on to the less 'volatile' middle-eastern nations such as Jordan. One of my former workmates was from Jordan, he's a great guy, and a New Zealand permanent resident. His family went home to Jordan in March to quickly visit their relatives before the Americans invaded Iraq. Although, much like you, he was hesistant to go home to visit due to the recurrent hostilities in the region.

Now, after going through these countries you may pick up enough 'cultural lore' to get by in Palestine itself. Of course, Palestine isn't Jordan, and has it's own regional identities, culture and customs blah blah blah. But hopefully you'll know precious little enough by the time you get there to not stand out like a sore thumb [img]smile.gif[/img]
This is a trip I plan to take after I graduate university. And if I am not killed during my travels I'll be sure to come back and tell you all about it [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 08-25-2003, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

There's a HUGE difference between 'advocate' and 'what if'. ;)