SoS, ou make some good points.


1. Congestion. SOlid comments. Regarding a wizzy slayers group, I wouldn't think that a group that's trying to oust the Cowled Wizards from control of Athkatla would be based outside of the city (in a pre-existing area). So that tends to leave either some pre-existing location on one of the city area maps or, as you suggest, creating a new area(s).

I think that the problem with creating any new areas is area maps. Unfortunately, the BG1 city maps are totally interlinked, so you really can't use any of them. I suppose that the Beregost town map could be used to represent a "suburb" of Athkatla. But that seems like a positively scarey amount of work.


2. Cowled Wizards teleporting to Brynnlaw. Good point. But it might break the story plot device of the party getting drugged on Havarian's ship. (I don't even know how the plot proceeds if you take Bodhi's path. never played it.) Then again, I suppose that the Cowled Wizards might have a traitor who has cast a drug-like spell on you, thus getting you into the same position, plot-wise.


3. Instigating a fight with the CW. I don't recall that the areas are really any emptier at night. I suppose that the park in the middle of the government district is about a good place as any. Next question. How do you get their attention? Will casting protection/buffing spells out in the open be enough to get the CW's attention?

4. Interesting comments regarding a paladin path.

Actually, Athkatla is a much bigger fish than Baldur's Gate, at least in terms of mercantile trade and human traffic. You're right about the factions in BG City, though: I can only think of the Thieves Guild, the Flaming Fist, and the Iron Throne (with a few token Harper and Zhentarim representatives).
Now, about the implied suggestion of locating the a new faction outside the Athkatla city limits, e.g., Trademeet: That would require all of the quests for that faction to take place in the city of Trademeet, since the alternative is to travel 20 hours to go do the quest, travel 20 hours to report that you've completed the quest, travel 20 hours to go do the next quest, etc.
No, I say keep it in Athkatla, there are tons of little nooks and crannies. Have you any idea how many buildings there are in the Slums District that you can't get into? Or what about all those unopenable doors in Waukeen's Promenade? True, it would require modifying the main map area, but all it would take is the addition of one little door, plus copying an indoor area file or two from BG1, and you're in business.

Why on earth would the Shadow Thieves object to the Wizard Slayers? They wouldn't feel threatened bacause hardly any of them use magic, the Wizard Slayers aren't specifically against organized crime, and the SThieves would actually benefit from the Cowled Wizards being eradicated, because it would create a power vacuum that the SThieves could fill more easily than anyone else.
Now, the Cowled Wizards would obviously frown on such a thing as the Wizard Slayers' Guild, but that's why the organization is housed inside a huge dead-magic zone, and thus nothing inside can be detected through divination. There's also the fact that the Cowled Wizards themselves might have created the WSG, as Warriors to guard & accompany them when arresting deviants. Only now that Lord Ketlaar Argrim has taken the reins has the WSG begun turning against the Cowls....without their knowledge. It has potential!


Ooooh, I just got a stupid idea. No matter who you side with in Chapter 3, there can always be some 3rd-rate flunky who's on your side. After Jon captures you, that flunky can be there, and he removes his disguise and -whammo- he turns out to be Saemon Havarian, who not only "poisoned" your party, but also owns the ship that brought Bodhi to the island! (Only problem is, it's gotta be a damn fast ship if it's going to compete with a Dimension Door. Ah, well, maybe we can say she teleported directy from Jon's dungeon to the portal beneath Spellhold.)


After night falls, the only people around are Beggars and Amnish Guards. Maybe a Harlot or Ruffian or two. Trust me, even in broad daylight, there are good flaces to throw Cloudkills without Rep loss. Any Wizard spell cast outdoors (except in the Graveyard District) will attract the Cowls, even those cast from scrolls or sequencers. You can still use Wands, though.

<font color=plum>Good discussions so far and several points to address.

1) Twisted Rune Quest - I agree that it is too difficult to do in Chapter 3. I was just throwing out ideas for quests and that fits in perfectly with the Wizard Slayers Guild concept. The WSG could always keep their end of the bargain, but require the PC to clean out the Twisted Rune as soon as possible after they return. Perhaps they could keep their fee at 20,000gp (after all, getting the money really isn't a big problem) and offer to refund the extra 5,000 after the Twisted Rune is cleaned out.

2) I'm glad to see some consideration is being given to certain members or factions of the temples and even the ORH helping the PC and his/party out. The justifications given make sense.

3) I also agree that the Shadow Thieves wouldn't care a whit about the WSG. Certainly the C.W.'s would be worried about such a group, but since the group is determined to take on the C.W.'s, they would definitely have taken precautions to keep their HQ well hidden and undetecteble.

4) Drawing the C.W.'s out to fight. If it is done right, the wizards never get a chance to cast any of those nasty AoE spells. My assassin refused to pay the fee on general principle and also felt like the C.W.'s should be taught a lesson for even asking. So he and Yoshimo set some traps at the base of the stairway that leads from the Shadow Thieves HQ down to Mae'vars guild. Once the traps were in place, I had Edwin cast Haste on the party - which not only summoned the C.W.'s but prepared my group for the battle as well. The wizards got hit with the traps, attacked by hasted fighters, blasted with spells by Edwin, and backstabbed by my assassin and Yoshimo. Most of the group was dead within 3 rounds or less and didn't have time to do anything except stand there and take damage.

5) I especially like the idea that the WSG started as allies with the CW's, but have since turned against them. Works for me. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] </font>

Or, you would not have to cast any spells at all. The Wizard slayers could give you like a stone, or something like that, that when deployed on the ground in a specific ditstrict, will lure the CW´s to it. A bit more complicated then just casting haste, but it adds roleplay. I mean, if the wizard slayers hate magic, they wouldnt ask the protoganist to go out the door, create the thing they hate most, and then go back in, now would they?

Mystique, don't get to hung up on the term "wizard slayers". I think that we are not so much thinking about a bunch of wizard-hating killers as we are a covert group who is opposed to the Cowled Wizards' oppressive tactics in Athkatla.

Magness is right... I would imagine a guild of wizard slayers would have quite a few magic users among its ranks. Good luck setting up antimagic fields, avoiding detection, or lowering a foe's spell protections without a magic user.

Edit- Oh yeah, Lumie. You rock that goddess of truth and justice like woah.

[ 12-18-2004, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: Illumina Drathiran'ar ]

Illumina, et.al., perhaps we shouldn't even use the term "wizard slayer". I don't know what term would be better at the moment and I suppose that WSG works for the purposes of discussion. It's just that the term "wizard slayer" calls up images of mage-hating killers. ;)


Somehow, I don't think that the Athkatla Civil Liberties Union would work out. ;)

My own definition of the Wizard Slayer ethos:

"The Wizard Slayer is a fighter who has focused his efforts toward the destruction of spellcasters. They believe that Wizards and (to a lesser extent) Priests represent a very real danger to the community as a whole: The study of magic is very taxing on the mind, and weakened--or tempted--individuals can easily wreak a great deal of havoc and carnage before they can be contained. For this reason, strict methods of control must be put into effect, and certain guardians must be trained to overcome any rogue spellcaster. Wizard Slayers study just enough of the mystical arts to be able to defy them."

Plenty of room in that to allow for Mages within the Guild--even the famously improbable Wizard Slayer->Mage dual is not out of the question, because those who devote themselves to seek out ever more effective ways to incapacitate dangerous spellcasters would know that it doesn't get much more effective than Spellstrike.

It might interest you to know, Cerek, that (in my mind, anyway) the Guild incudes a recruitable NPC named Tanith Darr, who also happens to be Tolgerias's right-hand woman. She's a high-ranking member in both organizations, informing each against the other as her own interpretations of the law sway her back and forth. Watch the sparks fly between her & Valygar....or Aerie.

Aha, well, since im dont read many Baldurs gate books and the like, i simply referred to the description of the class.

SixOfSpades,

Are you saying that the Wizard Slayers Guild is an honest to goodness FR organization and not just an idea that someone in this thread threw out as a vague idea?